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re: Roster construction next year - way too early look
Posted on 10/10/22 at 8:42 pm to Epic Cajun
Posted on 10/10/22 at 8:42 pm to Epic Cajun
quote:
It’s very likely that Jose would play over Kira even if he was healthy.
It's really an insult to Jose to even compare them at this point.
The only question with Jose is about when he's clearly better than CJ. I think we're just a year away from that.
1
Posted on 10/10/22 at 8:43 pm to TeddyPadillac
Someone will take a chance on Hayes for 8-10 mil if not for more. I agree he shouldn’t get much over 10 mil but 8 mil will get him serious consideration from a few teams who could use extra offense.
Knowing we are 7.5 mil over the cap without him I definitely think he is not worth the contract with the current roster construction.
Let Hayes walk, let Temple walk, trade Graham. That leaves us with 10 mil. Add Liddell to the roster and add say Matkovich. We would have enough to re-sign Kira IF he plays well or send him out too and create 2 roster spots with about 10 mil left.
Knowing we are 7.5 mil over the cap without him I definitely think he is not worth the contract with the current roster construction.
Let Hayes walk, let Temple walk, trade Graham. That leaves us with 10 mil. Add Liddell to the roster and add say Matkovich. We would have enough to re-sign Kira IF he plays well or send him out too and create 2 roster spots with about 10 mil left.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 9:22 am to GOP_Tiger
ICYMI KIRA IS MORE THAN FAST
Ehhh, I love the fans.
Jose, Jose, Jose Jose JOSE!
Kira potential is based off his unmatched speed and athleticism more than it has anything to do with youth.
Yes, Kira is young and was drafted with an element of patience being involved. He needed to extend his range and develop some ball skills but more importantly physically mature. I think he was starting to find his groove/identity before he went down with the injury.
Just for shits and giggles I see your wager and I’d bet Kira starts more games than Jose over the next two years, and I don’t think Kira will play before Christmas this year.
Ehhh, I love the fans.
Jose, Jose, Jose Jose JOSE!
Kira potential is based off his unmatched speed and athleticism more than it has anything to do with youth.
Yes, Kira is young and was drafted with an element of patience being involved. He needed to extend his range and develop some ball skills but more importantly physically mature. I think he was starting to find his groove/identity before he went down with the injury.
Just for shits and giggles I see your wager and I’d bet Kira starts more games than Jose over the next two years, and I don’t think Kira will play before Christmas this year.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 9:30 am to Dantheman504
quote:
Someone will take a chance on Hayes for 8-10 mil if not for more. I agree he shouldn’t get much over 10 mil but 8 mil will get him serious consideration from a few teams who could use extra offense.
Hayes offense is sprinting down the court after defensive rebounds, rim running, and shooting open 3's, and he doesn't really do any of those well b/c he's too lazy to realize that his biggest asset is his speed/athleticism but also more importantly is the energy that he should play with every minute he's in the game. He's lazy, and doesn't always come to play, and at times just watches the game while he's on the court instead of trying to make things happen. Something as simple as crashing the boards more for offensive rebounds, or sprinting down the court every single time after defensive rebounds. He could be what Jose is if he simply played with the same energy, but he rarely ever does that consistently. You seem him do it for 2 or 3 possessions, then he takes a few plays off. Some games he simply looks disinterested in playing the entire time. I think it's clear that he does not love playing basketball.
Jaxson has the size and skill set to be one of the best defenders in the league, similar to Ben Simmons, but he's not even a somewhat good defender.
Mitchell Robinson got 4/$60M
Bobby Portis got 4/$48M
Marvin Bagley got 3/$37M
Chris Boucher got 3/$35M
Kevon Looney got 3/$22M
The constant energy and effort you get from Boucher and Looney is what Jaxson needs to strive to do, and maybe he can get that kind of money, but he's yet to show that energy and effort. Jaxson is not on the same level as Bagley/Portis/Robinson. He can be with Boucher and Looney if he shows that constant energy this year, and takes a step forward defensively.
Mo Bamba got 2/$20M, with the second year not guaranteed, so they basically resigned him for 1 year for trade purposes.
The Magic did not tender a qualifying offer to him this offseason at $10.3M, so he became an UFA, and seems like no one really thought he was worth that $10M/yr.
And Bamba had a really good season last year as a rim protector, and also shot 38% from 3, averaging 11/8.
Jalen Smith is who i think he compares to the most. all the athletic skill and physical traits you want in a player, but they still disappoint you b/c of how they play. he signed for 3/$15M.
If Hayes plays like he's been playing, he's getting Jalen Smith money. If he plays with the energy Jose plays with, then yes he can get Boucher/Looney money, and i still say that won't be from us.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 10:12 am to TeddyPadillac
Jalen Smith’s case is an outlier. The Suns declined his option in his 3rd year. He got the most money possible in a 3 year contract for the Pacers.
Teams on the outside could play him more but No one was going give him a big contract with a small sample size on a bad Indiana team. He’s hasn’t even logged a full season worth of game in his career yet.
Teams on the outside could play him more but No one was going give him a big contract with a small sample size on a bad Indiana team. He’s hasn’t even logged a full season worth of game in his career yet.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 10:32 am to TeddyPadillac
Everyone of these examples scream that Jaxson will get 8-12 mil. Every one of those guys make between 10-12 except Looney who is taking a discount to stay on the GSW. Looney could easily make 10-12 mil+.
Teams also got railed in salary cap with several players the last few years. Russell Westbrick, Kevin Love, John Wall, and Kemba Walker all had 35+ mil contracts that will be expiring or already have. Also Gordan Haywards contract will be done next year. Not including Harrison Barnes and Tobias Harris. All of these players are the current worst contracts in the nba. All gone soon. This isn’t including higher cap bumps.
Jaxson will get 8 mil at the lowest.
Teams also got railed in salary cap with several players the last few years. Russell Westbrick, Kevin Love, John Wall, and Kemba Walker all had 35+ mil contracts that will be expiring or already have. Also Gordan Haywards contract will be done next year. Not including Harrison Barnes and Tobias Harris. All of these players are the current worst contracts in the nba. All gone soon. This isn’t including higher cap bumps.
Jaxson will get 8 mil at the lowest.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 10:51 am to Dantheman504
He may get that $8-10M, but it's not going to be from us.
We aren't going to pay Jaxson more than we pay Nance, unless Jaxson has a breakout season, and if he does, then i would bet we'd trade him at the deadline b/c that would mean he would be expected to have many suitors in the offseason and keeping him as a RFA would be important. Right now, him being a RFA is meaningless to us, and to any other team, which is why no one is going to give us any assets to trade for him.
Jaxson's path right now is very similar to Mo Bamba. Very talented top 10 pick who has never really shown to be anything more than a backup, but everyone knows has the skills to be a very good player. Their respective teams don't really want them anymore, but they also don't want to lose them for nothing.
The Magic tried to trade Bamba at the deadline, but likely didn't get anything worthwhile in a trade. They did not want to offer him the QO and make him a RFA, b/c they weren't willing to pay him $10M/yr on a multi year deal, and i say that b/c they would want to match any deal b/c they don't want to lose a top 10 pick for nothing. So they let him hit the UFA market, he probably got back deals that were 2/$12M, and so Orlando chose to give him more money for 1 year and hopefully let him show out a bit and actually get an asset for him by trading him. Same thing Phoenix is likely doing with Ayton, just on a much different scale. Orlando is in a position to use salaries to make a big trade. We are not.
I simply don't see us doing a similar thing where we give him a one year deal with the expectation of trading him at the deadline next year. That trade would likely need to be someone absorbing his contract for the most part to get us under the tax, and if that's the case we likely don't get anything in return and may even have to give assets to make it happen, so what's the point of resigning him?
We aren't going to pay Jaxson more than we pay Nance, unless Jaxson has a breakout season, and if he does, then i would bet we'd trade him at the deadline b/c that would mean he would be expected to have many suitors in the offseason and keeping him as a RFA would be important. Right now, him being a RFA is meaningless to us, and to any other team, which is why no one is going to give us any assets to trade for him.
Jaxson's path right now is very similar to Mo Bamba. Very talented top 10 pick who has never really shown to be anything more than a backup, but everyone knows has the skills to be a very good player. Their respective teams don't really want them anymore, but they also don't want to lose them for nothing.
The Magic tried to trade Bamba at the deadline, but likely didn't get anything worthwhile in a trade. They did not want to offer him the QO and make him a RFA, b/c they weren't willing to pay him $10M/yr on a multi year deal, and i say that b/c they would want to match any deal b/c they don't want to lose a top 10 pick for nothing. So they let him hit the UFA market, he probably got back deals that were 2/$12M, and so Orlando chose to give him more money for 1 year and hopefully let him show out a bit and actually get an asset for him by trading him. Same thing Phoenix is likely doing with Ayton, just on a much different scale. Orlando is in a position to use salaries to make a big trade. We are not.
I simply don't see us doing a similar thing where we give him a one year deal with the expectation of trading him at the deadline next year. That trade would likely need to be someone absorbing his contract for the most part to get us under the tax, and if that's the case we likely don't get anything in return and may even have to give assets to make it happen, so what's the point of resigning him?
Posted on 10/11/22 at 10:59 am to TeddyPadillac
Yeah I agree. He will get 8-10 mil and it won’t be from us.
Like I said we can add Matkovich and Liddell.
We can trade Graham and have money to Re-Sign Kira and have 3 mil or send them both out and create about 10 mil with 2 roster spots.
Like I said we can add Matkovich and Liddell.
We can trade Graham and have money to Re-Sign Kira and have 3 mil or send them both out and create about 10 mil with 2 roster spots.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 11:12 am to Don Pel
quote:
Just for shits and giggles I see your wager and I’d bet Kira starts more games than Jose over the next two years, and I don’t think Kira will play before Christmas this year.
The last time we saw Kira play, he wasn't as good offensively as Jose is now. But the defensive gulf between them is as wide as the Grand Canyon.
I like Kira and am certainly rooting for him to improve, but he needs to get a lot better than last season just to earn a rotation spot on this team.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 11:18 am to GOP_Tiger
I agree with this. The amount of people that don’t think he’s capable of being a rotation player or will not be good enough to have a roster spot is ridiculous.
Just ignorant statements that can only be supported by saying he hasn’t played. You can’t say the dude isn’t worth shite if he hasn’t played. It’s fricking stupid.
You can say he had bad moments while he did play but you’d be ignoring all of the good moments he had too.
Just ignorant statements that can only be supported by saying he hasn’t played. You can’t say the dude isn’t worth shite if he hasn’t played. It’s fricking stupid.
You can say he had bad moments while he did play but you’d be ignoring all of the good moments he had too.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 11:42 am to Dantheman504
quote:
You can say he had bad moments while he did play but you’d be ignoring all of the good moments he had too.
we have a rookie highlight video of him on this page and it's a 2 minute video of like 5 plays.
That's kind of the point, there simply aren't many good moments to even remember.
and i don't think anyone thinks he isn't capable of being a rotation player, just that it's likely not going to happen on this team b/c of where we are currently, but he still has an opportunity to play consistent minutes this year for us.
As i said before, i think the biggest thing with Kira is his confidence. He just doesn't look comfortable or confident out there, and that's really concerning for a PG.
There's 3 huge hurdles he needs to overcome.
1. He needs to decide if he's a PG or a SG. If he's a PG, then he's going to need to become more of a leader on the court with the ball, and we've yet to see even a glimpse of that yet. If he's not a PG, then the next two are really important.
2. He needs to knock down 3's, and he's been rather dreadful at that, but given his stats from college and the FT line, and his form, he should find his groove eventually from deep.
3. He needs to be a pest defensively like Jose b/c he's undersized, especially if he's going to play off the bench. Bring as much energy as you can off the bench. I think Kira is an excellent off ball defender, but his on ball defense isn't good at all, and at his size and if he's going to be the SG, then he needs to get much better at on ball defending. And i think he can be good on the ball, but i'll go back to the confidence thing. You can see him not being sure of what to do when picks come when he's on the ball. He just plays too scared and nervous, which is somewhat expected at times in your first year, but you generally see improvement with that confidence, and i simply haven't yet. This year will be very telling for him.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 11:57 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
if he's going to be the SG, then he needs to get much better at on ball defending
he's teeny to be guarding
6'5"+ 2s with today's lax calls for palming and carry.
no way he could do it.
and some 2s are built like middle linebackers. he's just too small and he's not the knockdown shooter you want at the 2 even if he could hold his own vs 2s.
he was a draft mistake.
wish him well. aloha. enjoy your next gig starting pg in a 2nd tier euro league and learn to shoot on someone else's dime.
This post was edited on 10/11/22 at 11:58 am
Posted on 10/11/22 at 12:14 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
needs to get a lot better than last season just to earn a rotation spot on this team.
Agreed. We have a talented team, with real championship aspirations.
The team has grown tremendously within a year, be that through internal development and/or player movement.
The roles are better defined and the players are more active off ball setting screens and cutting to the rim. The IQ seems to have risen on the defensive side just as much.
Defense will be the key to how far this team goes ultimately if health doesn’t become a factor.
Hopefully we treat these next two games more like a dress rehearsal for the season and start catching a rhythm and setting a rotation.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 12:17 pm to Don Pel
My 2 cents is that Kira really just needs mins at this point. Seems like an extended stint in the GLeague would be best for him and the Pels.
He really isn’t needed at the moment and the extended mins actually running the point could really give Pels and an understanding of what they actually have.
He really isn’t needed at the moment and the extended mins actually running the point could really give Pels and an understanding of what they actually have.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 12:22 pm to STEVED00
quote:thats pretty much guaranteed at this point, when he's able
Seems like an extended stint in the GLeague would be best for him and the Pels.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 1:15 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
i'll go back to the confidence thing. You can see him not being sure of what to do when picks come when he's on the ball. He just plays too scared and nervous,
he should have stayed at kentucky and learned to shoot.
maybe hit the weights.
as some posted he's headed to g league.
he's had some moments but not so you would still use a first on him given who all went after and can actually play. chosen after kira: my pick saddiq bey. panned out. many on this board wanted tyrese maxey. they were right. bigger stronger and showed up in playoffs. amen.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 1:23 pm to TeddyPadillac
“That's kind of the point, there simply aren't many good moments to even remember.”
No there are good moments. The problem is Louisiana sports fans only remember bad moments more. It’s a part of being short circuited, emotionally charged, short sighted and just having a negative view on most things. It’s the Louisiana way.
And I’m from here/ live here. Get upset all you want but none of that is wrong.
No there are good moments. The problem is Louisiana sports fans only remember bad moments more. It’s a part of being short circuited, emotionally charged, short sighted and just having a negative view on most things. It’s the Louisiana way.
And I’m from here/ live here. Get upset all you want but none of that is wrong.
This post was edited on 10/11/22 at 1:49 pm
Posted on 10/11/22 at 1:30 pm to Dantheman504
haha ok man.
yeah we all have a bunch of bad moments that we remember from Herb and Jose.
I mean seriously, it's a highlight of his rookie year and it's like 5 plays. you think Jose's rookie highlights are limited to 5 plays?
I"m not being negative. I dont' want Kira to fail. I want him to be the best he can and help the Pelicans win. I'm simply speaking honestly about him. Kira is a very likeable guy, which makes the average person want to root for him to do well.
yeah we all have a bunch of bad moments that we remember from Herb and Jose.
I mean seriously, it's a highlight of his rookie year and it's like 5 plays. you think Jose's rookie highlights are limited to 5 plays?
I"m not being negative. I dont' want Kira to fail. I want him to be the best he can and help the Pelicans win. I'm simply speaking honestly about him. Kira is a very likeable guy, which makes the average person want to root for him to do well.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 1:37 pm to TeddyPadillac
“I’m not being negative”
“There simply aren’t many good moments”
Bruh. You’ve been here a while, you haven’t said a single thing that Kira did well and he did several things well. I know damn well you watched him play and saw upside. He had several games where the game slowed down and he was also under 20 y/o. Those are positives. And yet you sit here and say there wasn’t many good moments and let’s just ignore how young he is.
Again look at Kira’s coaches and the teammates he had.
But no you will just choose to be a pessimist because in your head you remember only the things he didn’t do well and you can’t look past that.
“There simply aren’t many good moments”
Bruh. You’ve been here a while, you haven’t said a single thing that Kira did well and he did several things well. I know damn well you watched him play and saw upside. He had several games where the game slowed down and he was also under 20 y/o. Those are positives. And yet you sit here and say there wasn’t many good moments and let’s just ignore how young he is.
Again look at Kira’s coaches and the teammates he had.
But no you will just choose to be a pessimist because in your head you remember only the things he didn’t do well and you can’t look past that.
This post was edited on 10/11/22 at 1:39 pm
Posted on 10/11/22 at 1:57 pm to Dantheman504
quote:
“There simply aren’t many good moments”
it's called honesty. You want me to lie and say he's been great? It's ok to give constructive criticism. It doens't mean i hate the guy and want him to fail. It's ok to look at guys without Pelican colored glasses at all times.
quote:
Bruh. You’ve been here a while, you haven’t said a single thing that Kira did well and he did several things well.
As i suspected before, you simply dont' read well. And i'll give you the benefit of the doubt b/c i write long arse posts far too often.
I mean you didn't even have to even go to another page to find this. Explain how this isn't positive:
quote:
He needs to knock down 3's, and he's been rather dreadful at that, but given his stats from college and the FT line, and his form, he should find his groove eventually from deep.
His stats speak for themselves. Why do you want me to sugar coat his bad shooting stat from 3? It's ok that he hasn't been great, and i explain in detail why i POSITIVELY think he'll be ok from 3.
quote:
I think Kira is an excellent off ball defender
man so much negativity here.
quote:
but his on ball defense isn't good at all, and at his size and if he's going to be the SG, then he needs to get much better at on ball defending. And i think he can be good on the ball,
so some hard truth, and then look this weird thing about being positive about what i think he can be.
stop assuming i hate Kira Lewis. I do not. I want him to do well, and i think he is capable of being a good nba player with a long career.
quote:
But no you will just choose to be a pessimist because in your head you remember only the things he didn’t do well and you can’t look past that.
It's not called pessimism. It's called recognizing where he needs to improve in order to be a better player.
I'm sorry for actually watching games and critiquing what i think players need to do to improve. There's a huge difference between simply saying "the guy sucks.....he'll never play for us.....trade him now....." and actually giving critiques of what he does well and what he needs to improve upon to get better. Maybe you should stop being so pessimistic and reading everything i say about him in such a negative manner.
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