- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Coaching Changes
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Pels think they are a playoff team with or without Holiday
Posted on 5/3/17 at 12:35 pm to TigerinATL
Posted on 5/3/17 at 12:35 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
I think Bazemore and Crabbe are both gettable, especially if you're sending them back Moore as a more appropriately priced replacement for the non starting role they have on their teams.
do not want. is Moore really that much worse than either guy? i dont think so.
quote:
How do the Pelicans find a legitimate replacement wih limited space/assets
this was a topic on Lowe Post with Arnovitz after his big Clippers piece last week. the Clippers have been unable to find/grow prospects or lightly regarded players. it's why Paul Pierce was playing serious minutes in a game 7 in 2017.
the Pels have been better at finding some guys off the street, but still in a similar situation. they have to find low cost guys and develop them into role players. good teams/organizations know how to do that (Houston, San Antonio, GS, Memphis, Boston, etc).
Arnovitz even pointed out that it is not about finding that 3rd or 4th NAME player. because that just isn't happening for 99% of the teams. once you've got your star players, you focus on maximizing around them.
it's about turning DeMarre Carroll or Patrick Beverly or Danny Green or Jae Crowder or Tony Allen etc....into a competent NBA player. quality teams find those guys and put them into the right situations to hit their ceilings.
This post was edited on 5/3/17 at 12:37 pm
0
Posted on 5/3/17 at 12:38 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
I think Bazemore and Crabbe are both gettable, especially if you're sending them back Moore as a more appropriately priced replacement for the non starting role they have on their teams.
That might work if we had enough space to asborb the difference between the contracts, but are we going to stretch Asik and burn all of our space to convert Moore into Crabbe/Bazemore? If we do that, then we have to attach negative assets to the 2018 1st to get the PG.
Posted on 5/3/17 at 12:57 pm to NOFOX
Crabbe makes $19 next year, Bazemore only $17, so Bazemore is a lot easier to get. All you need to send is Moore and Frazier. Moore and Cook or Toupane could work as well depending on how the new "only guaranteed money counts in trades" rule is applied. You should only need Frenchy and QPon to get Rubio. I'm sure Thibs would rather Moore + 1st for Rubio but that's too much value for a guy they were looking to practically give away near the deadline.
Regarding Moore vs. Bazemore, if we lose Holiday Bazemore has a little more size so I like him better as Jrue's replacement at SG. He's got about 2 seasons worth of starting at SF under his belt and while he may not be twice as good as Moore, I just trust him more as a starting SG than I would Moore.
Regarding Moore vs. Bazemore, if we lose Holiday Bazemore has a little more size so I like him better as Jrue's replacement at SG. He's got about 2 seasons worth of starting at SF under his belt and while he may not be twice as good as Moore, I just trust him more as a starting SG than I would Moore.
Posted on 5/3/17 at 1:04 pm to TigerinATL
If we go into next year and the lineup looks like this:
Rubio/Collison
Jrue/Crawford
Hill/Bazemore
AD/DC/Diallo
Cousins/exception center
and then a bunch of minimum guys
I'd be ecstatic.
Rubio/Collison
Jrue/Crawford
Hill/Bazemore
AD/DC/Diallo
Cousins/exception center
and then a bunch of minimum guys
I'd be ecstatic.
Posted on 5/3/17 at 1:11 pm to TeddyPadillac
Bazemore as a backup SF is overpaid and he's too small to be your full time starter (can't handle the LeBrons). If you turn Moore into Bazemore it really should be because you see him as your starting SG whether Holiday stays or goes.
Posted on 5/3/17 at 1:24 pm to TigerinATL
who cares who starts or where they play.
The closing lineup would likely be Jrue/Bazemore/AD/Cousins and someone else. If there's a way to get that much talent here, you do it and worry about the minutes and best lineups later. It's never a bad thing to have more than 1 good player at a position. It was nice having Buddy/Moore/Galloway, and it makes it a lot easier to look for trades to upgrade when you have depth.
I don't want to get rid of Jrue if we are adding talent too.
The closing lineup would likely be Jrue/Bazemore/AD/Cousins and someone else. If there's a way to get that much talent here, you do it and worry about the minutes and best lineups later. It's never a bad thing to have more than 1 good player at a position. It was nice having Buddy/Moore/Galloway, and it makes it a lot easier to look for trades to upgrade when you have depth.
I don't want to get rid of Jrue if we are adding talent too.
Posted on 5/3/17 at 1:32 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
Bazemore as a backup SF is overpaid and he's too small to be your full time starter (can't handle the LeBrons). If you turn Moore into Bazemore it really should be because you see him as your starting SG whether Holiday stays or goes.
That 15-16 contract year seems like an outlier though not by a lot. I do think he is too limited to play next to Jrue especially at that price. His handle is not strong and he is not a good enough facilitator. I think he needs to play with more of a playmaking PG.
This post was edited on 5/3/17 at 1:35 pm
Posted on 5/3/17 at 2:26 pm to Crewz
quote:
Now the other path is to have a stop gap for a year or two and then still be good enough with AD and Cousins and stop gaps to lure a Butler or Wall in a few years. Unlikely? Sure. But at least that ceiling is title
I do not trust this organization to go this route.
AD/Boogie could have a chance at getting someone like Wall here. That trio is as good as any. But, this organization will try for the win now route.
Resigning Jrue to a high contract the ceiling is about 50-55 wins, and a 2nd round playoff exit.
Posted on 5/3/17 at 2:36 pm to CocoLoco
quote:
I do not trust this organization to go this route.
AD/Boogie could have a chance at getting someone like Wall here. That trio is as good as any. But, this organization will try for the win now route.
Resigning Jrue to a high contract the ceiling is about 50-55 wins, and a 2nd round playoff exit.
There are so many moving parts. It is not so black and white. Ideally you would need a stopgap option locked up for 2 years to avoid them gaining too much leverage next offseason. The stopgap also needs to be good enough to help this team get to the playoffs and competing so that DC will re-sign with us and as Crewz said to draw the interst of another star.
Boogie is not going to stick around if we bomb with a stop-gap on the hope that we can lure Wall or Butler in the future. The ideal would be getting Jrue on a reasonable enough contract that he is considered a positive asset in two years. Then you use the 2018 1st to turn Moore into a PG like Rubio. You should then have enough talent and defense to get into the playoffs to appease Boogie while maintaining the flexibility to go after that third star (Wall/Butler) if they will consider us in two years.
This post was edited on 5/3/17 at 2:38 pm
Posted on 5/3/17 at 3:30 pm to NOFOX
can someone explain the Bazemore infatuation to me?
his career/contract year is just a marginal upgrade from what Moore did this year. year 1 of his deal was very poor. what does he do that is worth the extra $27M difference over the next 3 years?
is it just desperation to dump Asik?
his career/contract year is just a marginal upgrade from what Moore did this year. year 1 of his deal was very poor. what does he do that is worth the extra $27M difference over the next 3 years?
is it just desperation to dump Asik?
Posted on 5/3/17 at 4:14 pm to corndeaux
quote:
can someone explain the Bazemore infatuation to me?
I'm assuming Holiday leaves and we need a starting SG. Moore and Bazemore give you about the same on offense but Bazemore is a bigger and better defender. If you could do a S&T of Holiday involving Atlanta for Bazemore I'd do that rather than give up Moore.
This team needs to make the playoffs next season. Even if Bazemore is only 20% better than Moore I'll take that 20%. Bazemore is overpaid but he's not so overpaid that you can't dump him when the time comes to go after a Wall/Butler in Free Agency.
This post was edited on 5/3/17 at 4:16 pm
Posted on 5/3/17 at 7:09 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
you could do a S&T of Holiday involving Atlanta for Bazemore I'd do that rather than give up Moore.
You're going after the wrong Hawk. His name is Tim Hardaway, Jr.
Posted on 5/3/17 at 7:26 pm to TigerinATL
if the Pels are pinning playoffs hopes on the difference between Bazemore and Moore, it's time to fold it up.
the question they have to ask is how much does the defense drop if Holiday walks? and if it is a big drop, can they replace Holiday's $$ with enough offense to overcome the loss?
the question they have to ask is how much does the defense drop if Holiday walks? and if it is a big drop, can they replace Holiday's $$ with enough offense to overcome the loss?
Posted on 5/4/17 at 3:55 pm to corndeaux
One big problem that arises to throw a wrench in all these contingencies is that if Jrue is going to really test free agency for the first time, he very well may be deliberate about it. He may take 2, 3 even 4 meetings before making a decision.
Something that hasn't been much discussed is what options are going to be left if Jrue takes his time deciding to leave?
Something that hasn't been much discussed is what options are going to be left if Jrue takes his time deciding to leave?
Posted on 5/4/17 at 4:30 pm to NOFOX
A little birdie just told me his sources say Holiday has asked for the Max for himself and cap space money for his brother (ie more than the $8.4 million MLE). Whether it's true or not it makes sense. If I'm the agent for those 2, and Holiday did switch to his brother's agent for a reason, why not start out negotiations as high as possible?
But that puts the Pels in the position of saying no right away. Al Horford told Atlanta he'd turn down the multiple 4 year max offers if they gave him the full 5 year max. Atlanta only offered a partially guaranteed 5th year so he took less guaranteed money from Boston. Are the Pels in the same spot with Holiday? Do they have a higher bar to meet and $22 million from the Knicks is great but $22 million from the Pels is an insult? If that's the case Holiday is as good as gone.
But that puts the Pels in the position of saying no right away. Al Horford told Atlanta he'd turn down the multiple 4 year max offers if they gave him the full 5 year max. Atlanta only offered a partially guaranteed 5th year so he took less guaranteed money from Boston. Are the Pels in the same spot with Holiday? Do they have a higher bar to meet and $22 million from the Knicks is great but $22 million from the Pels is an insult? If that's the case Holiday is as good as gone.
This post was edited on 5/4/17 at 4:31 pm
Posted on 5/4/17 at 4:42 pm to TigerinATL
Yea def sounds like it time for the pels to move on from Jrue if that is his mindset for free agency
Posted on 5/4/17 at 4:44 pm to TigerinATL
At this point, I really, really hope we get the #2 pick and just take Lonzo Ball. Instant reality show with Lavar and Boogie.
Posted on 5/4/17 at 4:54 pm to TigerinATL
If that's what he's asking for, I'd counter with a 1 for $10m contract for jrue, and a 1 year minimum contract for his brother, to let him know how ridiculous his offer was.
Posted on 5/5/17 at 1:49 am to TigerinATL
If this is his mindset then good luck with finding new franchise.
And also his brother. He is 28 already. It was his first decent season. I can accept giving him Galloway-type ($5m) money. nothing more.
Don't do this again Dell - don't max another player, whose salary will kill our flexibility for years...
And also his brother. He is 28 already. It was his first decent season. I can accept giving him Galloway-type ($5m) money. nothing more.
Don't do this again Dell - don't max another player, whose salary will kill our flexibility for years...
Posted on 5/5/17 at 7:24 am to TigerinATL
If that is the case, a competent management team would have an easy decision to make and could get started on finding a replacement. Our problem is that we do not have a competent management team and they will stumble upon themselves for weeks.
Page 4 of 5
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News