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re: More proof we need to draft foreigners?
Posted on 7/21/21 at 1:21 pm to Epic Cajun
Posted on 7/21/21 at 1:21 pm to Epic Cajun
quote:Fair point, but to the OP's point, I don't think that has anything to do with likeability.
How many of them won titles with teams that drafted them? That seems relevant when discussing which players to draft, right?
You wouldn't go about thinking this dude is going to maybe be an elite player but since these elite players haven't won titles with the team that drafted them, we shouldn't draft them.
1
Posted on 7/21/21 at 1:24 pm to shel311
quote:Definitely not, but it does go hand in hand with what MM was tweeting about earlier, which I'm assuming is where this topic came from.
You wouldn't go about thinking this dude is going to maybe be an elite player but since these elite players haven't won titles with the team that drafted them, we shouldn't draft them.
ETA: people are saying that he's cherry picking unlikable players, but he basically listed the top 10 American players (plus a couple extras), take out the two who aren't top 10 American players Simmons, and Klay.
You're looking at:
LeBron
Durant
Curry
Kawhi
Lillard
Harden
Davis
Irving
Beal
George
That group as a whole is extremely unlikable, with Curry, Lillard, and Beal being the only 3 who have stayed with the team that drafted them (so far).
This post was edited on 7/21/21 at 1:34 pm
Posted on 7/21/21 at 2:45 pm to Epic Cajun
I just think it's much less so domestic vs foreign and much more so people, as a whole, just always turn against and dislike the dudes hoarding titles, especially nowadays.
I wouldn't even put Curry on the likeable list at all. I obviously think he's likeable, but when they were in the middle of winning 3 titles in 4 seasons, Curry was probably one of the least liked dudes in the league. Kids love him, the MSB did not like him at all.
But to my main point about winning, the domestic dudes are the ones winning. The foreign players are not. If Giannis goes to the Finals 4 of the next 5 years and wins 3 titles, I'd be my life savings he will be liked wayyyyyyyyy less than we like him right now.
I wouldn't even put Curry on the likeable list at all. I obviously think he's likeable, but when they were in the middle of winning 3 titles in 4 seasons, Curry was probably one of the least liked dudes in the league. Kids love him, the MSB did not like him at all.
But to my main point about winning, the domestic dudes are the ones winning. The foreign players are not. If Giannis goes to the Finals 4 of the next 5 years and wins 3 titles, I'd be my life savings he will be liked wayyyyyyyyy less than we like him right now.
Posted on 7/21/21 at 3:00 pm to shel311
quote:I think it's because of the way that these guys are "hoarding" titles. People liked Curry a lot more before Durant joined him. LeBron was generally well liked before leaving Cleveland the first time. Kawhi was liked in San Antonio before becoming fricking weird about injuries or whatever. People liked George on the Pacers. I can go on
I just think it's much less so domestic vs foreign and much more so people, as a whole, just always turn against and dislike the dudes hoarding titles, especially nowadays.
Posted on 7/21/21 at 3:15 pm to ghost2most
How about just baby steps. Develop a stable program, first. Something they haven’t had in like 10yrs
Posted on 7/21/21 at 3:35 pm to ghost2most
quote:
we need to draft foreigners?
Serious question, and I may be remembering incorrectly, but I thought Trajan Langdon was an overseas talent specialist of some sort?
Posted on 7/21/21 at 3:53 pm to ghost2most
OP, I think it's wrong to stereotype players based on which country they were born in.
You are on to something, though, which is that a player's upbringing and character matter.
For many kids in the US, basketball can be an escape from a bad family and a tough neighborhood, and those childhood traumas, bad friends, etc. can follow players into their NBA careers.
That's just not true for most foreign players, because basketball isn't really the default sport where they come from -- it's usually soccer. So, it may be true that foreign players are more likely to have had better parenting, better friends, and may be more emotionally stable.
But if that is generally true, that just means that teams need to scout individual players carefully. If you only evaluate players by what happens on the court, you're more likely to end up with a player with character issues and isn't a good locker room presence.
You are on to something, though, which is that a player's upbringing and character matter.
For many kids in the US, basketball can be an escape from a bad family and a tough neighborhood, and those childhood traumas, bad friends, etc. can follow players into their NBA careers.
That's just not true for most foreign players, because basketball isn't really the default sport where they come from -- it's usually soccer. So, it may be true that foreign players are more likely to have had better parenting, better friends, and may be more emotionally stable.
But if that is generally true, that just means that teams need to scout individual players carefully. If you only evaluate players by what happens on the court, you're more likely to end up with a player with character issues and isn't a good locker room presence.
Posted on 7/21/21 at 4:11 pm to JescoWhite
quote:shite, he's only had 2 drafts with us.
Serious question, and I may be remembering incorrectly, but I thought Trajan Langdon was an overseas talent specialist of some sort?
Posted on 7/21/21 at 4:50 pm to shel311
Trajan's big move was to bring in Nico Melli, and it makes me sick how many posts I've read talking about all of David Griffin's screwups and how Trajan should replace him.
Trajan is why we dumped Christian Wood for Melli, which was right up there with Bledsoe and SVG as the biggest front-office disasters of the Zion era.
Trajan is why we dumped Christian Wood for Melli, which was right up there with Bledsoe and SVG as the biggest front-office disasters of the Zion era.
Posted on 7/21/21 at 10:03 pm to ghost2most
I agree my friend.
Posted on 7/22/21 at 8:39 am to shel311
quote:
shite, he's only had 2 drafts with us.
Well that’s kind of what I was implying. This could be part of the plan (even a big part), but we may need to give it time to play out.
Posted on 7/22/21 at 8:51 am to GOP_Tiger
Trajan also was responsible for the scouting that lead to the decisions on drafting Hayes/NAW. It's impossible for us to separate who was responsible for which decision. Griff may not be a big dummy but he is a big liar which is why people are ready to throw him under the bus. People don't like being mislead.
I would imagine Griff is good at some things that Trajan isn't and vice versa. So the Pels are better off with both if Griff can be humble enough to know when to step back like he reportedly did with the coaching search.
I would imagine Griff is good at some things that Trajan isn't and vice versa. So the Pels are better off with both if Griff can be humble enough to know when to step back like he reportedly did with the coaching search.
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