- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: If BI and CJ can't lead this team to .500 or better post ASB
Posted on 2/26/23 at 11:12 am to The_Duke
Posted on 2/26/23 at 11:12 am to The_Duke
I'm beginning to agree. Willie has limited understanding of Xs and Os to play against the offensive gurus of the league. When his system is working it's great, but his system has been completely exploited and he has done very little to make adjustments to the system with much effectiveness.
The 10 game losing streak was no fluke and seeing the offense continue to struggle game after game is deflating. These players clearly thrive on offensive play and that usually impacts their defensive play. We're just not a team that can carry the team playing good defense and medicare offense. Their make up is offense and Green has to lean on making the offense better even if it's at the expense of the defense.
The 10 game losing streak was no fluke and seeing the offense continue to struggle game after game is deflating. These players clearly thrive on offensive play and that usually impacts their defensive play. We're just not a team that can carry the team playing good defense and medicare offense. Their make up is offense and Green has to lean on making the offense better even if it's at the expense of the defense.
2
Posted on 2/26/23 at 11:19 am to TigerinATL
quote:I hear ya
That’s why the OP is a question that I honestly wasn’t expecting so much agreement with. Is the problem BI isn’t good enough, or is it a “you’re only as strong as your weakest link” problem and fixing some or all of starting 3&D wing, Center, or coaching makes everything better.
I'm not saying by any stretch we're a perfect team when healthy, but I do think we need to ask if whatever thing or issue we have, is it really an issue if Zion is healthy?
In this case, or the sub-section of this discussion, we were 23-12 with our Big 3 and CJ shooting like shite due to the hand injury. If Zion were still healthy AND CJ shooting efficiently like he has for the past 30+ games, what exactly would be the argument against CJ? My guess is we'd still be a top 3 seed, so what's the issue? Seems like the entire CJ issue IMO simply comes down to it's an issue because we're losing because Zion is hurt.
Any deal we want to make or you think we should have made instead of getting CJ would be a bad deal or something I could complain about if Zion plays less than half the season, so again, what is the true issue?
I honestly don't think there's a good answer, but if DantheMan or whatever his name is answers the questions and says the guys we should have gotten instead of CJ, now make Zion and BI hurt this season like they have been, would DantheMan truly be happy with that player or players? We'd still be in the same shitty situation we're in now.
This post was edited on 2/26/23 at 11:20 am
Posted on 2/26/23 at 11:27 am to shel311
That is also the incorrect question.
The correct question is who else could we have spent that 30+ mil on?
Yes we could have ended up with Lowry or another really bad contract. But we could have also used more picks and added a better/ younger fit than CJ.
It wasn’t a bad move and it definitely shifted us in the right direction. Is CJ the answer? I do not believe so. I’ve voiced my opinion about that extension.
CJ has been great for leadership but we don’t need him to be the leader for 4+ years. Will his skills be worth what we could have used that 30+ mil for if we looked elsewhere the next 2-3+ years?
If we get a healthy squad in the playoffs then yeah give it a chance. If it doesn’t work out then our next move should realistically be packaging CJ/ Herb/ etcc + picks for a SGA/ Jalen Brown.
The correct question is who else could we have spent that 30+ mil on?
Yes we could have ended up with Lowry or another really bad contract. But we could have also used more picks and added a better/ younger fit than CJ.
It wasn’t a bad move and it definitely shifted us in the right direction. Is CJ the answer? I do not believe so. I’ve voiced my opinion about that extension.
CJ has been great for leadership but we don’t need him to be the leader for 4+ years. Will his skills be worth what we could have used that 30+ mil for if we looked elsewhere the next 2-3+ years?
If we get a healthy squad in the playoffs then yeah give it a chance. If it doesn’t work out then our next move should realistically be packaging CJ/ Herb/ etcc + picks for a SGA/ Jalen Brown.
Posted on 2/26/23 at 11:32 am to Dantheman504
quote:Who, what guy?
That is also the incorrect question.
The correct question is who else could we have spent that 30+ mil on?
Yes we could have ended up with Lowry or another really bad contract. But we could have also used more picks and added a better/ younger fit than CJ.
And what would this team right now today look better with that guy and BI/Zion missing as much time as they have? Would we have a winning record with a younger fit who isn't as good as CJ now but you're hoping that he is down the road?
quote:Next season is the make or break season from a health standpoint. But OKC isn't trading SGA for CJ and young assets/picks. They have a million picks, they're going to start selling those off to build around SGA.
If it doesn’t work out then our next move should realistically be packaging CJ/ Herb/ etcc + picks for a SGA/ Jalen Brown.
Teams don't ever trade players that good unless they're causing issues and asking out.
This post was edited on 2/26/23 at 11:33 am
Posted on 2/26/23 at 11:35 am to Dantheman504
quote:
we could have also used more picks and added a better/ younger fit than CJ.
No we couldn’t have. The rumors at the time seemed to indicate we went hard after Fox too, but Sac wanted Sabonis and Indy only wanted Haliburton rather than our stuff for him. Between that offseason and the trade deadline Griff tried and was told no on just about every available guard that even remotely fit our needs except Graham and CJ.
Posted on 2/26/23 at 11:38 am to TigerinATL
quote:Right, that's why I asked to name the guy who we realistically could have added that was better than CJ, because I certainly haven't heard that name of the dude we could have gotten. It's easy to say we could have just gotten someone else, but not so easy to name that person.
No we couldn’t have. The rumors at the time seemed to indicate we went hard after Fox too, but Sac wanted Sabonis and Indy only wanted Haliburton rather than our stuff for him. Between that offseason and the trade deadline Griff tried and was told no on just about every available guard that even remotely fit our needs except Graham and CJ.
So even if you don't think CJ is worth his value and there is no other guy we could have gotten that is better and you argue we then should have simply not traded CJ...then what? We're not in a better position than we are now, worst in fact.
So I'll keep asking, if not CJ, what is the move last season that would have made us better? And it can't be a 19 year old or some shite because the team was built to win now, this season(we're actually multiple seasons behind on our timeline). Gotta keep that in mind too.
This post was edited on 2/26/23 at 11:40 am
Posted on 2/26/23 at 1:42 pm to The_Duke
quote:
How often do we crate easy lob attempts for Zion? We saw plenty of those with Uncle Al.
Let’s be real, Lonzo Ball was largely responsible for lob attempts to Zion. But hey his career is fricked. Maybe we can empty the war chest for LaMelo.
Posted on 2/26/23 at 8:19 pm to supe12sta12z
quote:
I'm beginning to agree. Willie has limited understanding of Xs and Os to play against the offensive gurus of the league. When his system is working it's great, but his system has been completely exploited and he has done very little to make adjustments to the system with much effectiveness.
Willie is trying to play Herb at the 4 and it’s just stupid because Herb can’t shoot, so opposing teams can leave their big lineups in without paying the price.
The Pels have their two traditional 5s in JV/Billy and small ball 5 in Larry, and Zion is a cheat code at the 4, but when he is out the Pels need a 4 that can step in and not screw up the team functions. Herb is not that guy (Naji is the same situation).
It’s not that you can’t start Herb (or Naji), nor that he can’t defend 1-5 at times, but due to his lack of shooting he needs to be able to contribute with athleticism and hustle on O, but if he is guarded by a big 4 (rather than a 2 or 3), then they don’t try to cover him in space and just hang near the lane where they can use their size advantage and play free safety against the other Pels in the lane. If Herb (or Naji) punished them by making open shots it would work, but he doesn’t, so it provides a huge advantage to the opponent.
The Herb/Naji at backup 4 requires them to space the floor or it doesn’t work and both of them are shooting terrible. The only other option is Jax, who played well late last season and who was getting praised in Dec. when Zion was out this year, but who can’t sniff the court now.
It’s a failed experiment, but our admins didn’t fix it and I seriously question Willy’s intelligence now because he doesn’t seem to know it failed and just keeps rolling out our non-shooting small ball 4s hoping it will work out.
Zion coming back and playing well fixes the hole, but he isn’t ready and Willy is wrecking the ship on the rocks by failing to acknowledge what isn’t working, and isn’t going to work, unless a miracle happens and the Pels suddenly start making more shots.
Before Larry got hurt he could’ve tried to go big with Larry and JV/Billy, but he didn’t…now that option is gone too since Larry is hurt.
Are we just supposed to pray Herb/Naji start shooting better, or is Willy going to play Jax and hope he can play up to his potential? Not sure either is realistic, but if that doesn’t happen we can expect to continue losing until Zion returns to balance the floor.
Posted on 2/27/23 at 1:56 pm to shel311
quote:
I'm ok with Richardson minutes but Herb getting more run than Trey is the issue.
I'm of the thought that after the All Star break it's time to go all in on winning and playoff seeding, and heck, just making the playoffs lol.
It's imo not the time to say Richardson is just a rental so he shouldn't get more minutes than Trey. Nah, the best dudes need to be out there. But Herb has become such a black hole on offense that I do think Trey should be getting some of those minutes.
But as of now, Richardson deserves those minutes over Herb and Trey.
All of this. If we fail to go .500 with BI and CJ without Zion, then it's really time to start questioning Willy and some of the other role guys IMO. BI played his arse off last year and down the stretch. CJ has proven when he's the third option, it's going to be hard to do much better. After the hand injury, he's been solid as hell.
BUT Maybe we AND Griffin bought too much into how out of their minds guys like Jose, Trey and Herb were playing last year and how quickly we considered them untouchable and cornerstones of the franchise. The only players that should be untouchable are Zion and BI. That's it. Holding onto our assets is fine if the asking price is too high, especially with how fragile Zion has shown himself to be. Having said that, it's going to be time to move some significant assets (draft picks + Herb + maybe more) for an upgrade for our third star. I love CJ and I dont think he's at fault, but if we're going to be missing BI and or Zion for long stretches in the foreseeable future then we're going to need someone that can keep us afloat, this group has proven it can't do. Dyson makes Herb tradeable IMO. This is an offensive style NBA now and Herb is just a blackhole out there at times.
The perfect addition was Bridges but it Brooklyn passed up 3 firsts for him, I'm not sure he's worth more than that
This post was edited on 2/27/23 at 2:02 pm
Posted on 2/27/23 at 2:22 pm to supe12sta12z
quote:
I'm beginning to agree. Willie has limited understanding of Xs and Os to play against the offensive gurus of the league. When his system is working it's great, but his system has been completely exploited and he has done very little to make adjustments to the system with much effectiveness.
The 10 game losing streak was no fluke and seeing the offense continue to struggle game after game is deflating. These players clearly thrive on offensive play and that usually impacts their defensive play. We're just not a team that can carry the team playing good defense and medicare offense. Their make up is offense and Green has to lean on making the offense better even if it's at the expense of the defense.
This is what i was alluding to in my post. I love Willie. I hope and wish he was the one to get us to the mountain top. But the lineups, lack of adjustments and lack of creation offensively is massively concerning. That and the fact the team, ever since Zion went down, has lacked focus, energy and consistency just screams red flags on coaching. I think he's leaning too much on CJ and BI to be "leaders" because he doesn't really know how to do it himself just yet with such a young team. I think this is apparent when he falls in love with vet guys like Temple, Graham, Richardson, etc. If we traded some of the younger guys and got him a more veteran team to where he didn't have to get after their asses every night to put forth effort would benefit him, but not necessarily be the right decision.
Posted on 2/27/23 at 2:24 pm to shel311
quote:
IMO, CJ should not be primary ball handler, ans the offense shouldn't run through him unless he's playing with the twos, period.
Agreed but we don't have anyone that can do that
Dyson is the guy but he's clearly not ready offensively for a bigger role.
Eventually, Zion is the primary ball handler in an ideal world
Page 6 of 6
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News