re: Honest Zion talk for Emotional Intelligent Folks

quote:

---

Yea, at this point I really don't know what his point is or how he doesn't see exactly what I've been saying was proven last night.

I(and many obviously) know he has that high energy type of player in him and can do it, and last night shows that. But we also know that's not a side from him we've seen in the 1st 11 games

---

also, the exact reason why was never settled. here are some of my posts from page 1-2

quote:

---

how much of that is the injury, SVG, or Zion?

---

quote:

---

i think the weight, knee injury, and this lame arse SVG offense (for him) are 3 things messing with his head for sure

---

it's not just one thing and SVG bears a lot of responsibility for this. maybe the vast majority of the blame.

quote:

---

You came into this thread claiming Zion is no longer the prospect he once was based on 34 games under incredibly less than ideal circumstances

---

i still stand by that

we thought we were getting a lebron. we're not

that's OK, but it is still true

quote:

---

and claiming he regressed as a player from last year, ten games into a new team and new system that has severely limited him

---

so in response to my post saying SVG may bear the most responsibility for Zion's issues, you bring up....SVG's system as "severely limiting" Zion this year

quote:

---

Claiming he gives no effort on defense.

---

he hasn't exactly hustled this year on D. one game with an incredibly efficient offense doesn't change that

quote:

---

we thought we were getting a lebron. we're not

---

Yeah that’s having unrealistic expectations.

Lebron is arguably a top 3 all time player, by the end of his career may be the best of all time.

Expecting any prospect to be that, let alone 35 games into their career is stupidity bordering on insanity.

Zion came into the league far less developed than Lebron, and any expectation of him getting to MVP/best in the league status(which is still very much in the cards) was always going to require a longer development curve. And nothing so far has removed that ceiling.

quote:

---

so in response to my post saying SVG may bear the most responsibility for Zion's issues, you bring up....SVG's system as "severely limiting" Zion this year

---

Which is it buddy? Is Zion no longer capable of being an All NBA, historical talent, or is it SVG’s fault? You seem to want to have it every which way. If this is SVG then how the frick can you say Zion will never be that level player? If you claim he’s permanently lost athleticism, how do you explain last night?

quote:

---

he hasn't exactly hustled this year on D. one game with an incredibly efficient offense doesn't change that

---

Or, you know, what Steven Adams and Gundy has said that seems to be backed up by last nights film: he’s as hard a worker as anyone they’ve ever seen and smart as a whip, but it takes time to leverage and marry the correct physical exertion in the right way in a defensive read and react setting as a pro. Especially as a big man. But when it comes together you are going to consistently see an unbelievable talent. And last night very much shows what that can look like

quote:

---

No you didn’t, you said straight up you didn’t watch the first half

---

Nope, you're looking foolish again. You probably want to go back and read to see the error here you're making.

quote:

---

and were clearly rage posting most of the second.

---

Name 1 thing I said after the Saints game that I didn't say before. Again, you can't answer that, which makes you look foolish for continuing to harp on it after easily being proven wrong.

quote:

---

later came in here and started making reactionary rage posts and aggressively defending your characterizations and proclamations of Zion that were being challenged in real time

---

Again, Name 1 thing I said after the Saints game that I didn't say before. Again, you can't answer that, which makes you look foolish for continuing to harp on it after easily being proven wrong.

quote:

---

Completely oblivious to that fact until I and others hit you with it.

---

SFP, he still doesn't realize the thing he "hit us with" proved us correct and him wrong very obviously

quote:

---

Not hard to put two and two together that you were simply here last night to unload emotions

---

By saying the exact same things I said before the Saints game? You do realize that makes no sense whatsoever, right?

quote:

---

Yeah that’s having unrealistic expectations.

---

why did we celebrate so heavily getting the #1 pick?

go back and look at the threads the night of/day after the lottery. Zion is not your normal #1 pick and nobody expected that

quote:

---

Which is it buddy? Is Zion no longer capable of being an All NBA, historical talent, or is it SVG’s fault?

---

it can be both.

NBA players typically develop on a similar pattern. considering 1 year was wasted in college and now we're throwing away years 2 and 3 post-high school, a lot of the major (typical) developmental arc is gone. you don't get to just make up that lost development. every wasted moment of development in this era of his development shaves off the peak/ideal version of him

the injury can be playing a role, both physically and psychologically

our training can be playing a role (basically re-forming his movements that will make his peak decline but elongate his career/prime)

the offense can be playing a role, too

you're placing the blame on the offense/system, which was funny b/c you said that after i said that may bear the majority of the blame

quote:

---

But when it comes together you are going to consistently see an unbelievable talent

---

what is your cutoff? are we writing off this year? are you expecting it in year 3? 4?

serious question b/c i don't plan on going anywhere and i just want to make sure we don't keep moving the goalposts

quote:

---

I don’t know how you can objectively say he is after what we have seen through those 34 games

---

Because I actually have realistic perspective. Expecting someone to show GOAT level play 34 games in is absurd(and yet he is in fact on a historical level player trajectory). Let alone removing a players ceiling that soon(especially when that player is in fact on a historical trajectory).

Can you post for me Giannis’s stats after 34 games?

Then 10 games into his second season?

Then show me Lebron’s stats for his first 35 games?

Kobe’s first and second year stats?

Which mind you all came in much more ideal circumstance than Zion’s.

I just want you to realize how absurd this nonsense is.

quote:

---

Through their first 35 games,

---

show me lebron's 3rd years v. this year for Zion. that's the fair comparison

if you want to do it on age, it's his 2nd year

quote:

---

show me lebron's 3rd years v. this year for Zion. that's the fair comparison

---

Completely disagree. 3 years nba game experience and nba level coaching, 3 training camps, and 2 full offseasons vs what zion has gotten is not at all a fair comp.

quote:

---

show me lebron's 3rd years v. this year for Zion. that's the fair comparison

---

Explain to me how a more fair comparison would be comparing a players first 34 games under the context Zion has played under to a player with three full offseasons and nearly 200 NBA level games under his belt?

But your deflection here tells me you are scared of my challenge because you know it would expose the stupidity of this line of reasoning you are on.

Players aren’t final products 34 games into their careers, and many, like Giannis, Kobe, Curry, or KD, weren’t looking exactly like All time greats 34 games into their careers, or even 10-15 games into their second seasons.

Why you still running away from my challenge?

Scared what it would expose in arguments trying to make such proclamations this early into careers??

Give me Giannis, Curry, KD, Kobe, and their first 35 games and first ten games in their second season. Explain to me why Zion has uniquely eliminated himself from getting to that tier of player over time, which was the realistic high end expectation coming out?