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re: Dyson vs Herb season long thread
Posted on 11/13/25 at 8:35 am to whatiknowsofar
Posted on 11/13/25 at 8:35 am to whatiknowsofar
Update the stats. We're far enough in to get a semi gauge on the comparison.
1
Posted on 11/13/25 at 8:46 am to iwyLSUiwy
Only thing Herb is currently doing better than Daniels is 3 point shooting percentage, but its pretty drastic on that.
Sports Reference
Sports Reference
Posted on 11/13/25 at 9:05 am to LSU4ever2002
Didn't realize you could do side by side on basketball reference. Nice.
I'd say Herb on offense in general as well, not just 3pt shooting. basically the same 2pt FG% as well. Scoring more on the same attempts in less minutes. Herb better in TS% as well. I don't know if it's just because of lineups but Herb doesn't rack up as many rebounds as you'd think he would.
Crazy to think of how good herb is on defense that Dyson is even better. He's so good.
I think the biggest stand out is age though. Dyson is still only 22. Should be interesting to see what his stats are at 27, safe to assume they'll' be a decent amount better. But at the moment, even though it's not necessarily a fair comparison based on age, I'd give Herb the edge simply based on value. His contract is much more appealing/favorable than Dysons new contract.
I'd say Herb on offense in general as well, not just 3pt shooting. basically the same 2pt FG% as well. Scoring more on the same attempts in less minutes. Herb better in TS% as well. I don't know if it's just because of lineups but Herb doesn't rack up as many rebounds as you'd think he would.
Crazy to think of how good herb is on defense that Dyson is even better. He's so good.
I think the biggest stand out is age though. Dyson is still only 22. Should be interesting to see what his stats are at 27, safe to assume they'll' be a decent amount better. But at the moment, even though it's not necessarily a fair comparison based on age, I'd give Herb the edge simply based on value. His contract is much more appealing/favorable than Dysons new contract.
Posted on 11/13/25 at 9:56 am to iwyLSUiwy
I luv Dyson & would luv to have him STILL with the Pels...but his offensive game has made very little to NO improvement. If you watch him play very often...you would realize that Herb is just a MUCH better offensive player. Not really close.
DD is a better rebounder (although it's not as much as Herb's rather odd rebounding stats would suggest) and DD is a better passer. That's about it for DD's "advantages"...
BTW: It should be fairly obvious to everyone, by now...that Herb has been "coasting" on defense this season...he's STILL the best by far, on the Pels...but be warned...it's only gonna get worse...as the season wears on. Just a product of playing with a team of truly horrible defensive players that don't seem to "want" to improve on that end of the court. Funny thing is, Herb might not even realize he is "coasting"...but a man can only bust his azz running through picks & trying to cover for his teammates all over the court for SO long...before he starts letting up...just a bit...then a bit more...etc...
DD is a better rebounder (although it's not as much as Herb's rather odd rebounding stats would suggest) and DD is a better passer. That's about it for DD's "advantages"...
BTW: It should be fairly obvious to everyone, by now...that Herb has been "coasting" on defense this season...he's STILL the best by far, on the Pels...but be warned...it's only gonna get worse...as the season wears on. Just a product of playing with a team of truly horrible defensive players that don't seem to "want" to improve on that end of the court. Funny thing is, Herb might not even realize he is "coasting"...but a man can only bust his azz running through picks & trying to cover for his teammates all over the court for SO long...before he starts letting up...just a bit...then a bit more...etc...
This post was edited on 11/13/25 at 10:01 am
Posted on 11/13/25 at 1:02 pm to Chalkywhite84
quote:
Didn't you also want to trade for trae young?
Guilty. Only because his market value was pretty low according to sources around the league. And the Hawks thought the opposite, that they could get a haul for him. Which is why he wasn’t traded.
But yes all things being equal, I would take a Trae/Daniels back court to a Murray Herb one if given the choice.
Like it or not, much more excitement, box office, with a Trae/Zion team than what we currently have.
This post was edited on 11/13/25 at 1:03 pm
Posted on 11/18/25 at 10:32 am to Townedrunkard
Hawks on 5 game win streak without Trae, currently sit 4th in the East.
7-2 without him on the year, with DD as the primary facilitator on the team.
Dyson 5 of 6 11 pts, 7 rebs, 12 assists and 3 steals the other night against Suns…..
Pels sitting dead last, and all I’m seeing is trade Zion and Herb threads on here….
7-2 without him on the year, with DD as the primary facilitator on the team.
quote:
Hawks without Trae Young: — 7-2 record — Top 2 defense — Top 10 offense — Top 10 net rating
Dyson 5 of 6 11 pts, 7 rebs, 12 assists and 3 steals the other night against Suns…..
Pels sitting dead last, and all I’m seeing is trade Zion and Herb threads on here….
This post was edited on 11/18/25 at 11:32 am
Posted on 11/23/25 at 1:36 am to whatiknowsofar
Guess I’ll bump again since whatidontknowsofar has given up.
Dyson 14pts 8 rebs 4 assists only one steal tho, finished +13 in Hawks W
Dyson 14pts 8 rebs 4 assists only one steal tho, finished +13 in Hawks W
This post was edited on 11/23/25 at 1:37 am
Posted on 11/23/25 at 4:25 am to Townedrunkard
This is over for this year. Dyson is going to way outperform him. Jones is gimpy and having a horrible year. Honestly I wouldn't want either one at this point. I don't think either is a plus starter, and I wouldn't give Daniels 25M+/year. They are defensive specialists that just dont affect winning that much. Its awesome if they can packs stats and hold a high a level scorer to sub 20ppg. But they end up only scoring 10-12 and losing the match up. So not ideal. Hopefully some team disregards this and throws us a good deal..
Posted on 11/23/25 at 7:53 am to Townedrunkard
quote:
Dyson 14pts 8 rebs 4 assists only one steal tho, finished +13 in Hawks W
Hes still a bad offensive player that cant shoot 3s or make fts. Guess we'll have to wait til next year for him to magically get better at that right?
Posted on 11/23/25 at 9:24 am to brmark70816
quote:
Its awesome if they can packs stats and hold a high a level scorer to sub 20ppg.
Didn't herb just get done making Lukas life hell?
Posted on 11/23/25 at 10:32 am to Townedrunkard
quote:
since whatidontknowsofar has given up.
Dyson 14pts 8 rebs 4 assists only one steal tho, finished +13 in Hawks W
What towndumbass also failed to mention is that it took 15 shots to get those 14 points, and Pels walked away from him on his open 3pt shots as he shot 0/4 from 3. Again, its disingenuous comments like what he tried to pull above that make him one of the douchiest posters on this site.
Posted on 11/23/25 at 12:07 pm to brmark70816
quote:
They are defensive specialists that just dont affect winning that much
Since Trae has went out, the Hawks have taken off. Think they are a top 3 defensive team without him. Went from a losing record to a winning record.,
And whatidintknowsofar said DD was only able to do what he did last year b/c of Trae. He’s had multiple games with 10+ assists in wins since then.
Pels have been bad regardless of who’s in the lineup or not…..
This post was edited on 11/23/25 at 12:10 pm
Posted on 11/23/25 at 12:10 pm to whatiknowsofar
quote:
Again, its disingenuous comments like what he tried to pull above that make him one of the douchiest posters on this site.
Just more excuses b/c you made this thread and then fell flat on your face as usual….
It’s why you quit bumping it weeks ago….
This post was edited on 11/23/25 at 12:11 pm
Posted on 11/23/25 at 12:12 pm to Townedrunkard
A backcourt of Daniels and fears would be a great regular season back court going forward.
Might still be a problem come playoff time with a lack of shooting. But closing out playoff games is a champagne problem I’d love to have.
Daniels ability to actually handle the ball is something the pelicans could sorely use right now.
Might still be a problem come playoff time with a lack of shooting. But closing out playoff games is a champagne problem I’d love to have.
Daniels ability to actually handle the ball is something the pelicans could sorely use right now.
Posted on 11/23/25 at 12:12 pm to whatiknowsofar
quote:
Didn't herb just get done making Lukas life hell?
Hawks blew out the lakers a couple weeks ago, Luka held to 22 with a -27…..
This post was edited on 11/23/25 at 12:13 pm
Posted on 11/23/25 at 12:17 pm to ned nederlander
quote:
A backcourt of Daniels and fears would be a great regular season back court going forward.
Not only that, but all would be 22 or younger and on the same timeline.
Maybe if Dumars offered to swap out DD for Herb they would have taken protections on our pick and we’d really be sitting pretty right now.
Posted on 11/23/25 at 1:36 pm to Townedrunkard
quote:
Just more excuses b/c you made this thread and then fell flat on your face as usual….
Lol literally stats that prove my point are excuses. Dyson is still an elite defender that can't shoot 3s or fts.
Posted on 11/23/25 at 1:36 pm to Townedrunkard
Obviously...DD & Herb are BOTH...great defenders. A bit "different" but...both...great.
Offensively...they are about as different as they could possibly be...for 2 players that are fairly close to the same size.
Offensively, the LAST thing... that DD wants to do...is shoot an open C&S 3...which is fairly easy to figure out when you realize he's taking 13.1% of his shots from the 3-pt line...and shooting a truly horrible % which I won't bother to quote. (It's REALLY bad)
Offensively, the FIRST thing... that Herb wants to do...is shoot an open C&S 3...which is why he takes 48.9% of his shots from the 3-pt line (actually it's 54.6% but I digress)...and is shooting a respectible 36.2% on 3s this season.
So...it basically just gets down to which "style" fits your team's makeup better. Do you want someone at that position who can stretch the floor and requires guarding at the 3-pt line which should help open up things inside...OR...do you want somebody who is a bit better on the inside...but is gonna make things quite crowded for any players who would be better with more freedom inside and not have to deal with the extra player who is "playing off" DD ?? Pretty simple decision...imo
Offensively...they are about as different as they could possibly be...for 2 players that are fairly close to the same size.
Offensively, the LAST thing... that DD wants to do...is shoot an open C&S 3...which is fairly easy to figure out when you realize he's taking 13.1% of his shots from the 3-pt line...and shooting a truly horrible % which I won't bother to quote. (It's REALLY bad)
Offensively, the FIRST thing... that Herb wants to do...is shoot an open C&S 3...which is why he takes 48.9% of his shots from the 3-pt line (actually it's 54.6% but I digress)...and is shooting a respectible 36.2% on 3s this season.
So...it basically just gets down to which "style" fits your team's makeup better. Do you want someone at that position who can stretch the floor and requires guarding at the 3-pt line which should help open up things inside...OR...do you want somebody who is a bit better on the inside...but is gonna make things quite crowded for any players who would be better with more freedom inside and not have to deal with the extra player who is "playing off" DD ?? Pretty simple decision...imo
Posted on 11/23/25 at 3:39 pm to whatiknowsofar
quote:
Lol literally stats that prove my point are excuses. Dyson is still an elite defender that can't shoot 3s or fts.
DD stats are still better, but stats are for losers. DD is helping his team win.
It’s pretty apparent Griff should have traded Herb and we woukd have kept our two first rounders. Which would have saved us from including our unprotected first this year. Chain reaction effect that has set our organization back a few years….
Posted on 11/23/25 at 3:41 pm to Townedrunkard
quote:
DD stats are still better, but stats are for losers
This is what a loser says. And they aren't better
This post was edited on 11/23/25 at 3:44 pm
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