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re: Cap Talk and moves you would like to see
Posted on 4/21/23 at 12:08 pm to Balsamic_duck
Posted on 4/21/23 at 12:08 pm to Balsamic_duck
quote:The discussion was does better rim protection and shooting outweigh what Jval is better at and his availability.
I am absolutely certain that turner is a better rim protector and shooter, he's proven that over his career.
You mentioned you think it does, and I do too. But I'd like to be 100% certain if I'm giving up multiple assets for it.
quote:Sure, but they could also play 60-65 games each, which would be fine, but also amount to 40 games missed between the 2 with some of those potentially overlapping. Those games Val's skillset on offense is something I don't think we'd have with Turner.
If we have another season missing 1 or 2 main guys and are forced to rely on turner for offense then this whole iteration of the pelicans is a failure and the team will be overhauled.
1
Posted on 4/21/23 at 12:37 pm to shel311
Offense wouldn't be much of an issue if Williamson can stay healthy. Rebounding on the other hand would be a massive issue. Turner can't anchor the glass.
Posted on 4/21/23 at 12:44 pm to supe12sta12z
Here's a question that I've been thinking about. I am sure that CJ has at least one more season with the team in (basically) the same role. After that, though, I'm not so sure.
Would a closing five of Herb, Trey, BI, Zion, and Turner work? If so, then you'd have so much size on the floor that I wouldn't worry too much about rebounding ability from that group. Don't forget that Trey is going to add a significant amount of muscle over the next two years.
Would a closing five of Herb, Trey, BI, Zion, and Turner work? If so, then you'd have so much size on the floor that I wouldn't worry too much about rebounding ability from that group. Don't forget that Trey is going to add a significant amount of muscle over the next two years.
Posted on 4/21/23 at 1:05 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
Don't forget that Trey is going to add a significant amount of muscle over the next two years.
did you see him say about this?
not every tall guy puts on muscle.
very successful skinny:
bill russell
Rick Barry
kd
Posted on 4/21/23 at 4:26 pm to CelticDog
The best way to improve is via Detroit assuming they draft Victor. Detroit has two young centers. One probably will probably be traded for future assets assuming the Pistons win the lottery.
The other alternative is to trade CJ to Philly assuming JH bolts back to Houston. Pelicans need to trade with little return or a salary dump. CJ doesn't fit the Pels plus the team has two first rounders that need to see the floor. CJ is a SG but Herb's skills are better for this team at the position.
I think Philly would be a great fit and opportunity for CJ to play for a contender.
The other alternative is to trade CJ to Philly assuming JH bolts back to Houston. Pelicans need to trade with little return or a salary dump. CJ doesn't fit the Pels plus the team has two first rounders that need to see the floor. CJ is a SG but Herb's skills are better for this team at the position.
I think Philly would be a great fit and opportunity for CJ to play for a contender.
Posted on 4/25/23 at 7:53 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
with that lineup i proposed no one is a true 4, but Trey and Watanabe would play the 4 behind Zion
We did that this season and it was a disaster. Trey is a SG/SF, as are Herb and BI. Dyson is an odd PG/SF hybrid until his shot comes around. Putting any of them at the 4 makes them less effective.
The reason JV is a lightning rod is because he does so many things well, but he isn’t fast, so leaving him on an island without a legit defender at the offside post is playing into opponents hands. Teams are going to continue to put JV (and pretty much any bulky big) in the pick and roll, so the Pels need to have backside rim protection to prevent field day at the rim and for secondary rebounding.
Posted on 4/25/23 at 8:59 am to BamaPelican
quote:
We did that this season and it was a disaster. Trey is a SG/SF, as are Herb and BI. Dyson is an odd PG/SF hybrid until his shot comes around. Putting any of them at the 4 makes them less effective.
Trey played the 4 73% of the time. He had a great year.
Trey had 3 lineups where the team excelled at.
he was the 4 in all of them, and he was sharing the court with other big defenders like Naji, Richardson, BI and Herb. The team was +13 +12 and +11 in those top 3 lineups. Two were with JV, one with Larry.
ANd surprise surprise, Trey had only 3 5 man lineups that did really bad. He was playing the 3 behind JV/Zion in 2 of them. His most popular lineup was the starting lineup of CJ/Herb/BI/Trey/JV, and it was a -1.1. Swap out Larry for JV and then it becomes the 2nd best lineup he had at +12.0
Trey had two other 5 man lineups where he was the 3 behind JV/Zion, and both of those finished at +1.5 and +0.7.
It's quite obvious the team does better with Trey at the 4 as opposed to the 3.
Don't sit here and tell me Trey at the 4 was a disaster.
He's the perfect modern day 4. Tall, athletic, decent defender, decent rim protector, and a lights out shooter.
Trey isn't a good enough defender to play the 2/3. He's a true 4 in today's NBA. The only reason people on here are trying to say he's a 3 is b/c we have Zion, who can't play the 3 or the 5.
quote:
The reason JV is a lightning rod is because he does so many things well, but he isn’t fast, so leaving him on an island without a legit defender at the offside post is playing into opponents hands. Teams are going to continue to put JV (and pretty much any bulky big) in the pick and roll, so the Pels need to have backside rim protection to prevent field day at the rim and for secondary rebounding.
This isn't a Trey at the 4 is the problem issue, it's a JV isn't a good pnr defender issue and the root of the bad rim protection. It makes no difference who the 4 is, if guys are getting free runs to the rim, no ones protecting the rim at an average rate.
Our best offensive lineup, regardless of who the 5th player is will be CJ/BI/Trey/Zion. The problem with that lineup is that all of those guys don't defend their position well at all, and the bigger issue is they are all terrible off the ball defenders for the most part. It would be nice if they could play together in the playoffs so you could actually see the kind of defense they would play, instead of what you get in the regular season of going through the motions and not caring as much.
Trey and Zion can't defend the 3 well, and it's why lineups with both of them didn't really do that great, on top of the fact that neither of them are aggressive rebounders, even though they can both be great rebounders if they actually wanted to.
Posted on 4/25/23 at 10:16 am to 50_Tiger
If we do not pull out a miracle and get Wemby, maybe we should pull for the Hornets to win the lottery. If so, they may be open to parting with one of their young 5s - Williams or Richards. Both are on cheap deals and would be a great compliment to JV.
Posted on 4/25/23 at 10:23 am to CelticDog
I remember reading stories that he gained a bunch of weight, but I don't see it a ton in rookie year to this year pics. His chest has filled out a bit, arms and neck seem the same
Posted on 4/25/23 at 10:25 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
This isn't a Trey at the 4 is the problem issue, it's a JV isn't a good pnr defender issue and the root of the bad rim protection. It makes no difference who the 4 is, if guys are getting free runs to the rim, no ones protecting the rim at an average rate.
Our best offensive lineup, regardless of who the 5th player is will be CJ/BI/Trey/Zion. The problem with that lineup is that all of those guys don't defend their position well at all, and the bigger issue is they are all terrible off the ball defenders for the most part. It would be nice if they could play together in the playoffs so you could actually see the kind of defense they would play, instead of what you get in the regular season of going through the motions and not caring as much.
Trey and Zion can't defend the 3 well, and it's why lineups with both of them didn't really do that great, on top of the fact that neither of them are aggressive rebounders, even though they can both be great rebounders if they actually wanted to.
Think its clear, if you want a "small ball 5" to hide Zion & Trey's deficiency, you need a guy who can rim protect & grab boards.
Gafford & Capela are the most available that would fit that mold. Capela would be too expensive & if I'm honest --- wouldn't come off the bench.
JV is a necessary evil on this team until we situate our 3pt shooting because offensively he's efficient enough to offset things.
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