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Message
re: Aug 6th BI Deadline
Posted on 8/6/24 at 1:05 pm to Large Farva
Posted on 8/6/24 at 1:05 pm to Large Farva
We are going to double down on this top heavy roster that doesn’t work and simply isn’t good enough. Sweet.
2
Posted on 8/6/24 at 1:12 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
You mean when BI got hurt?
We were playing Point Zion before then. Its also BI was overall playing good basketball but his scoring was significantly down.
quote:
Again, show me some stat of BI passing up open 3's.
I’m askinh seriously do they keep stats on this?
quote:
Again, stop saying this unless you can back it up.
Plenty of people have seen this in games. You’re telling me he doesn’t do this? That you need actual video clips or something stats based to show you this?
quote:
I back up my arguments with stats, not some eye test everyone here likes to use.
The stats are based up on BI’s pull up threes which Ive mentioned I don’t believe is relevant to the argument. You’re using that argument to show he struggles in that and hence he needs a point guard to shoot more 3s.
If you want to use stats- pull up the amount of court time he has with Zion and see if he has shot more catch and shoot 3s during that time. Because stats will show you other players on this team have.
quote:
It's very clear that you're either an off ball player that takes a bunch of C&S 3's for the majority of your offense, like OG and Trey Murphy, or you're a creator and you're going to have to take more pull up 3's if you want to take a lot of threes.
Why is that clear? Thats very black and white and not true at all. They are many players who can do both or are somewhere in the middle. I don’t believe all nba players or wings boil down to this. And say we go by your argument- do you believe BI is miscast as a creator is just a catch/shoot guy?
quote:
BI's best comparison has always been prime Khris Middleton. Very similar players, and have similar #1 players on their team.
I personally think BI is better than that. I can see why you make that comparison but I also think its almost an insult to BI. Middleton to me even in his prime was nothing more than inefficient scorer who played solid defense. Even on that championship team its an argument whether he was the second best player or Jrue.
Posted on 8/6/24 at 1:14 pm to ThePistol
Well to be fair we haven't seen this roster
Posted on 8/6/24 at 1:19 pm to Large Farva
quote:
Well to be fair we haven't seen this roster
Ok say we see it and it doesn’t work due largely to the issues at center and BI doesn’t do anything to increase his trade value or sign an extension. What do we do then? What will teams give up for half a season of BI?
Theres a pretty big risk involved here if BI doesn’t extend and we dont trade for front court help.
Posted on 8/6/24 at 1:32 pm to TeddyPadillac
I think the answer is honestly a bit both BI giving into old habits and the team needing a true PG.
We came into the year saying we needed to shoot more 3s and Borrego’s system emphasized that. Almost every player’s pull-up 3pa per game was nearly identical compared to the year before. In fact as a team we only averaged 1.2 pull-up 3pa more than the year before. Yet every meaningful rotational player from last year increased their 3pa per 36 by 20-25% from the year before, except BI and Zion. So pretty much every player was able to increase their 3pa’s without increasing their pull-up 3s
But the problem isn’t just BI’s 3pa in a vacuum, you have to look at it in context of the rest of the league and the entire team. The game is trending to the 3 point shot. BI’s 3pa were below league average for a starting 3, but so were Herb’s for a 2, Zion for a 4, and JV for a 5. CJ was the only starter that attempted more 3’s than the average starting 1. Out of Herb, Zion, JV, and BI, Ingram was the best shooter and the logical choice to up his 3 point output and he just didnt do it.
With that said, the last two years with Lonzo, BI shot 6.6 and 6.5 3pa per 36 (compared to the 4.2 3pa he averaged in the three years since). Along with the Jose/BI stuff you pointed out, there is obviously some credence to the idea that he will get more 3p shots up with a more traditional PG.
Hopefully it’s just a conformability issue with him and having another creator in Murray will help BI finally get back to his elusive 19-20 shot chart.
We came into the year saying we needed to shoot more 3s and Borrego’s system emphasized that. Almost every player’s pull-up 3pa per game was nearly identical compared to the year before. In fact as a team we only averaged 1.2 pull-up 3pa more than the year before. Yet every meaningful rotational player from last year increased their 3pa per 36 by 20-25% from the year before, except BI and Zion. So pretty much every player was able to increase their 3pa’s without increasing their pull-up 3s
But the problem isn’t just BI’s 3pa in a vacuum, you have to look at it in context of the rest of the league and the entire team. The game is trending to the 3 point shot. BI’s 3pa were below league average for a starting 3, but so were Herb’s for a 2, Zion for a 4, and JV for a 5. CJ was the only starter that attempted more 3’s than the average starting 1. Out of Herb, Zion, JV, and BI, Ingram was the best shooter and the logical choice to up his 3 point output and he just didnt do it.
With that said, the last two years with Lonzo, BI shot 6.6 and 6.5 3pa per 36 (compared to the 4.2 3pa he averaged in the three years since). Along with the Jose/BI stuff you pointed out, there is obviously some credence to the idea that he will get more 3p shots up with a more traditional PG.
Hopefully it’s just a conformability issue with him and having another creator in Murray will help BI finally get back to his elusive 19-20 shot chart.
Posted on 8/6/24 at 1:43 pm to Baron
quote:
With that said, the last two years with Lonzo, BI shot 6.6 and 6.5 3pa per 36 (compared to the 4.2 3pa he averaged in the three years since). Along with the Jose/BI stuff you pointed out, there is obviously some credence to the idea that he will get more 3p shots up with a more traditional PG.
Point BI and Point Zion are both not great choices. Both guys can average 5 assists per game without being the PG, or having to be the PG for prolonged periods of time.
Murray can come in here and average something ridiculous like 10+ assists per game, with his scoring being a little more limited than previously. He can still score say 18 a game, and it should be easier for him to do so, but our goal should be to have him be a league leader in assists, while BI and Zion benefit from recieving the ball in better positions on the court where they can be more efficient as a scorer. Their assists will come no matter what b/c teams will collapse on them when they have the ball which will lead to Trey, CJ, Herb, Murray wide open 3's.
If Zion averages 26, BI 23, Murray/CJ/Trey all in the 15-18 range with Herb around 10-11, with Murray getting 9+ assists per game, that's a team that could be a top 3 offense in the league easily.
Posted on 8/6/24 at 1:49 pm to ThePistol
quote:
his is your issue. You look at BI as Zion's equal
I don't think anyone does this. It's obvious Zion is and needs to be the #1 guy. BI knows that too.
quote:
They made him the focal point to start the season, they put him front and center in team murals, they announced him last in the starting lineup.
The reason Zion hasn't taken over is no fault to BI, or the organization. It's all on Zion not being a professional. That appears to be changing over the last 8 months.
quote:
This team has to build around Zion. BI does not fit that build
Zion isn't easy to build around b/c he can't shoot.
BI will fit just fine with Zion and a PG. We have to give that a chance this year, and if it doesn't work out, then so be it, we lose BI for whatever it is we trade him for. We can't give up on an all-star caliber player just yet. Let's see what Murray can do for this team and go from there.
Posted on 8/6/24 at 1:57 pm to ThePistol
quote:
We are going to double down on this top heavy roster that doesn’t work and simply isn’t good enough. Sweet
Well you are already wrong because we acquired Murray and by default are not "doubling down".
CJ and BI BOTH wanted a PG because it would make us better.
Posted on 8/6/24 at 2:00 pm to Dantheman504
quote:
CJ and BI BOTH wanted a PG because it would make us better.
Did CJ actually say this? I know BI did but don’t remember CJ asking for a point guard.
Posted on 8/6/24 at 2:01 pm to Dantheman504
Sounds like we're going into the season with BI expiring. Pretty much the worst outcome.
Posted on 8/6/24 at 2:04 pm to Balsamic_duck
quote:
Sounds like we're going into the season with BI expiring. Pretty much the worst outcome.
I don’t understand Griffs logic here. Does he think this team will win the whole thing? If he does then why not give BI the money?
I dont understand BI on the team with no extension. In what world can his trade value increase? Teams will just wait till after the season if they want him.
Posted on 8/6/24 at 2:09 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Did CJ actually say this? I know BI did but don’t remember CJ asking for a point guard
I don't think anyone wants CJ to play PG if given a better option including CJ. Plus he spent over an entire season talking about how he's having to change his game. He didn't come here saying "my passion has been to become a PG and Dame is holding me back".
Posted on 8/6/24 at 2:10 pm to Dantheman504
quote:
I don't think anyone wants CJ to play PG if given a better option including CJ. Plus he spent over an entire season talking about how he's having to change his game. He didn't come here saying "my passion has been to become a PG and Dame is holding me back".
But he didn’t say we needed a point guard either. You’re literally putting words in his mouth. Thats a completely inaccurate statement. BI was the only one on record saying this.
This post was edited on 8/6/24 at 2:11 pm
Posted on 8/6/24 at 2:13 pm to Balsamic_duck
quote:
Sounds like we're going into the season with BI expiring. Pretty much the worst outcome
I did not get that take at all. It sounds like a deal will be made soon. I don't think BI takes that gamble if the market really isn't there. Would be better for both parties to reach a deal at that point.
Hopefully he has a "frick the NBA" mentality and signs a 4/120 extension with a no trade clause. He wont but that would be cool.
Posted on 8/6/24 at 2:15 pm to Dantheman504
quote:
Hopefully he has a "frick the NBA" mentality and signs a 4/120 extension with a no trade clause.
If he doesn’t sign today, he can’t be traded this season though. Just curious are you ok with that? And theres a strong chance he may just walk for nothing and test the market.
Posted on 8/6/24 at 2:17 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Did CJ actually say this? I know BI did but don’t remember CJ asking for a point guard.
I do'nt recall it either from CJ, but his shot chart this year kind of screams it out loud that he belongs off ball as much as he can. He doesn't even need to be the backup PG, as he's most effective as strictly an off ball SG.
Posted on 8/6/24 at 2:20 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
I do'nt recall it either from CJ, but his shot chart this year kind of screams it out loud that he belongs off ball as much as he can. He doesn't even need to be the backup PG, as he's most effective as strictly an off ball SG.
I agree with you on that. CJ is better off ball. I just dont like when people are stating things that never happened.
Posted on 8/6/24 at 2:21 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Zion isn't easy to build around b/c he can't shoot.
You are 100% right, Zion can't shoot. That means the number 2 on the team absolutely has to shoot 3's. BI simply does not do that. Stats from 5 years ago mean nothing, he does not want to shoot 3's and refuses to shoot them with any sort of volume and consistency. So yes, Zion is very hard to build around if you are going to commit 140 million+ to Brandon Ingram to be the number 2 on the team. This is the single biggest reason that the team should not sign him to an extension after today and lock into this roster for the entire season.
And while we upgraded with Dejounte, now we have too much talent in the backcourt/wing and not nearly enough in the frontcourt. Two of our most talented guys will be on the bench for at least 25-30 min a game because we have to play a center who is a fringe NBA player at best.
Posted on 8/6/24 at 2:29 pm to Pels_Yaz
So to be clear, if BI doesn't sign an extension today, then that's it, he's an UFA at the end of the season?
Or is the August 6th deadline being said b/c if he doesn't sign today he can't be traded this year?
I can't find anythign that says the deadline for his extension is today.
There's a bunch of tweets stating Shams saying he wants $45-50M/yr
If that means in year 1, then no. If that means average, then $45M/yr average is a 4/$180M contract, and i could live with that.
Or is the August 6th deadline being said b/c if he doesn't sign today he can't be traded this year?
I can't find anythign that says the deadline for his extension is today.
There's a bunch of tweets stating Shams saying he wants $45-50M/yr
If that means in year 1, then no. If that means average, then $45M/yr average is a 4/$180M contract, and i could live with that.
Posted on 8/6/24 at 2:33 pm to TeddyPadillac
He can be traded after today...but Can't be resigned till next offseason
This post was edited on 8/6/24 at 2:34 pm
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