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Antonio Daniels on the latest In The NO podcast
Posted on 12/20/19 at 4:27 pm
Posted on 12/20/19 at 4:27 pm
Good discussion with Antonio about why the team sucks right now and why that's ok. Those that are tired of excuses will call him a team apologist, others will accept that he probably knows a little more about the situation than the average armchair GM on twitter and message boards.
LINK /
LINK /
This post was edited on 12/20/19 at 4:29 pm
5
Posted on 12/20/19 at 4:31 pm to TigerinATL
Listen to this earlier. Alot of the 12 years who whine all day won't like this. Go back to posting pointless fire Gentry threads and play y'all fortnite.
Posted on 12/20/19 at 4:32 pm to TigerinATL
Or accept the fact that he works for the team essentially and isn’t going to torch them.
I listened. It’s a good listen but taken with an extreme grain of salt. The truth is somewhere between him and “those weary of excuses”.
I listened. It’s a good listen but taken with an extreme grain of salt. The truth is somewhere between him and “those weary of excuses”.
Posted on 12/20/19 at 4:44 pm to Fun Bunch
I don't agree with the defense of Griff because Griff was talking out of both sides of his mouth. You can't point to his long term quotes as disclaimers when at the same time he's talking Jrue up as an MVP candidate saying we're planning to make the playoffs. But I do feel he adds some credibility to the "this shite takes time, especially when key players are injured" perspective.
Posted on 12/20/19 at 5:01 pm to TigerinATL
This is what I like about Antonio Daniels. He will give you insights a lot of guys won't dive into.
Posted on 12/20/19 at 5:08 pm to TigerinATL
What team in the NBA that has Jrue, Favors and Redick on it wouldn't be planning on making the playoffs??
They're not tanking, the season just hasn't gone quite as planned.
However, still only 6 games out of making the playoffs, so still in reach with what, 53 games left??
There's still time, especially if they play defense the way they have these last 2 games..
Gentry getting his double tech and ejection out of the game might have lit a fire under these guys
They're not tanking, the season just hasn't gone quite as planned.
However, still only 6 games out of making the playoffs, so still in reach with what, 53 games left??
There's still time, especially if they play defense the way they have these last 2 games..
Gentry getting his double tech and ejection out of the game might have lit a fire under these guys
Posted on 12/20/19 at 5:15 pm to Soggymoss
The team is 7-22.
This post was edited on 12/20/19 at 5:16 pm
Posted on 12/20/19 at 5:21 pm to Soggymoss
quote:
What team in the NBA that has Jrue, Favors and Redick on it wouldn't be planning on making the playoffs??
Then the team is clearly a disappointment and the fans are justified in being upset. I will say that Griff is getting the short end of the stick when it comes to the injury excuse, but fans understandably have gone numb to that one.
Posted on 12/20/19 at 5:26 pm to TigerinATL
Most of Favors missed games are due to his mother passing..
It's no coincidence when he comes back our defense begins improving...
Yes fans got the short end of the stick, but fans also need to realize there's somethings that are out of the teams control..
They didn't tear Zion's meniscus (I still think it happened when his shoe exploded), they didnt kill Favors's mom, they didn't dive at Hart's knee, etc etc etc.
Sometimes it's just bad luck.
And having as many new players as we have, combined with having to rotate the roster so much, chemistry is taking awhile to build
It's no coincidence when he comes back our defense begins improving...
Yes fans got the short end of the stick, but fans also need to realize there's somethings that are out of the teams control..
They didn't tear Zion's meniscus (I still think it happened when his shoe exploded), they didnt kill Favors's mom, they didn't dive at Hart's knee, etc etc etc.
Sometimes it's just bad luck.
And having as many new players as we have, combined with having to rotate the roster so much, chemistry is taking awhile to build
Posted on 12/20/19 at 5:36 pm to TigerinATL
There is a middle ground between Daniels’ “nothing is wrong” and the negativity. I agree with just about everything he said. It will take a while and the future is great. But you have to acknowledge that the team we are watching is underperforming and it is frustrating to watch. You can hear it in the voices of Joel and Daniels every broadcast. And Griff talks about how we are terrible at winning right now. You can’t really be upset with the fans about that reality.
This post was edited on 12/20/19 at 6:02 pm
Posted on 12/20/19 at 7:30 pm to TigerinATL
When did Griff say we’d make the playoffs THIS year. I don’t think he did.
Posted on 12/20/19 at 8:12 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
because Griff was talking out of both sides of his mouth. You can't point to his long term quotes as disclaimers when at the same time he's talking Jrue up as an MVP candidate saying we're planning to make the playoffs
Pels fans need to stop being naive.
Jrue Holiday as an MVP candidate was always ludicrous. We've watched him up close for 6 years. He's a wonderful player with obvious flaws at that level of player; any Pels fan that took Griffin seriously is clueless.
Griffin had every intention and belief the team would be better than this. He doesn't get a free pass for assembling the lousy team we've seen thus far. But he had very transparent motives with his spring/summer PR tour that were separate from actual on court performance.
This post was edited on 12/20/19 at 8:12 pm
Posted on 12/20/19 at 8:18 pm to corndeaux
I think one of Griff's main problems is that this team has underperformed for so long because #excuses, that he doesn't get the benefit of doubt that a new regime normally gets, especially since he elected to keep the coach nobody wanted in the first place.
This post was edited on 12/20/19 at 8:19 pm
Posted on 12/21/19 at 4:08 am to TigerinATL
Grif is looking more and more like totally full of it. Maybe he just rode off LeBron's tail in Cleveland. This franchise is as bad as it ever has been and it is all on him. Just lost to a team that was decimated with no Curry, Klay and KD from a year ago.
Posted on 12/21/19 at 5:44 am to PUB
That is such a wrong take. The current team may be as bad as it’s ever been but the franchise surely isn’t.
During the Shinn ownership era Jeff Bower was one of the top subscribers to synergy, a service that catalogs video of basketball broken down by play and player. He wasn’t the top subscriber because he was innovative, he was the top subscriber because he was not given enough budget to hire actual scouts.
Demps was an improvement for sure. When the league took over the team they gave him a league average budget to work with and he was able to do things like actually hire scouts. Unfortunately Demps was just trolling us with that move because he traded away almost every draft pick he had.
When Tom Benson bought the team he reset the clock on the cheap guys that were already in place. Demps survived way longer than he should have because with the new league economics he was able to run a profitable team even if it wasn’t a particularly good team. So the cheap, Mickey Mouse approach to running a team continued. Even though it was still a step up from the Shinn era management, the team was not given the resources and directives it needed to focus on winning.
Tom dying and Gayle taking over changed everything. They replaced Demps with 2 of the top GM candidates. Think about that a minute. They didn’t hire the cheap guy or decide between the up and comer and the retread, they hired both the up and comer and the retread. And then they kept hiring. They also invested another $10 million in a practice facility that they spent I think $30 million building less than 10 years ago.
You can say a lot of bad things about the current state of the team, but it’s pretty undeniable that the Franchise is stronger and better positioned than its ever been by a large margin. But Rome wasn’t built in a day, and with the specific injuries we’ve had and the coach they kept, this team has lost many more games than even the most pessimistic people expected. That doesn’t mean the future isn’t bright or the team is mismanaged. What was mismanaged was fan expectations on the year. They definitely pumped us up more than they should have.
During the Shinn ownership era Jeff Bower was one of the top subscribers to synergy, a service that catalogs video of basketball broken down by play and player. He wasn’t the top subscriber because he was innovative, he was the top subscriber because he was not given enough budget to hire actual scouts.
Demps was an improvement for sure. When the league took over the team they gave him a league average budget to work with and he was able to do things like actually hire scouts. Unfortunately Demps was just trolling us with that move because he traded away almost every draft pick he had.
When Tom Benson bought the team he reset the clock on the cheap guys that were already in place. Demps survived way longer than he should have because with the new league economics he was able to run a profitable team even if it wasn’t a particularly good team. So the cheap, Mickey Mouse approach to running a team continued. Even though it was still a step up from the Shinn era management, the team was not given the resources and directives it needed to focus on winning.
Tom dying and Gayle taking over changed everything. They replaced Demps with 2 of the top GM candidates. Think about that a minute. They didn’t hire the cheap guy or decide between the up and comer and the retread, they hired both the up and comer and the retread. And then they kept hiring. They also invested another $10 million in a practice facility that they spent I think $30 million building less than 10 years ago.
You can say a lot of bad things about the current state of the team, but it’s pretty undeniable that the Franchise is stronger and better positioned than its ever been by a large margin. But Rome wasn’t built in a day, and with the specific injuries we’ve had and the coach they kept, this team has lost many more games than even the most pessimistic people expected. That doesn’t mean the future isn’t bright or the team is mismanaged. What was mismanaged was fan expectations on the year. They definitely pumped us up more than they should have.
Posted on 12/21/19 at 8:25 am to TigerinATL
Again, that's on the fans.
Griffin deserves to be judged, in time, on his own record. People that can't draw a distinction between Demps era and the first 6 months of Griffin are clueless. Of course, they're also the loudest voices.
The Pels have been a shitty organization with a shitty team for the last decade. The Demps run solidified them as among the worst and most incompetent franchises from C-Suite to ball boys in the league. It takes time to bring an entire organization to competence.
As with all things on this board, everything comes back to "we lost; fire the coach." Gentry needs to move on, but Pels fans need to get a new schtick
Griffin deserves to be judged, in time, on his own record. People that can't draw a distinction between Demps era and the first 6 months of Griffin are clueless. Of course, they're also the loudest voices.
The Pels have been a shitty organization with a shitty team for the last decade. The Demps run solidified them as among the worst and most incompetent franchises from C-Suite to ball boys in the league. It takes time to bring an entire organization to competence.
quote:
since he elected to keep the coach nobody wanted in the first place.
As with all things on this board, everything comes back to "we lost; fire the coach." Gentry needs to move on, but Pels fans need to get a new schtick
Posted on 12/21/19 at 8:33 am to corndeaux
I love Griff. He oversold but I still think he’s a good GM and way way better than Demps could ever dream of.
We all knew there would be growing pains. But this team has just way better pieces than the record indicates. And that’s a problem.
I am firmly of the opinion that if he had fired Gentry then fans would not be having this conniption fit. It was a massive PR blunder. Fans would still be upset but understand more with a different, young coach.
I think Griffin has learned his lesson on overselling.
We all knew there would be growing pains. But this team has just way better pieces than the record indicates. And that’s a problem.
I am firmly of the opinion that if he had fired Gentry then fans would not be having this conniption fit. It was a massive PR blunder. Fans would still be upset but understand more with a different, young coach.
I think Griffin has learned his lesson on overselling.
Posted on 12/21/19 at 10:12 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
I am firmly of the opinion that if he had fired Gentry then fans would not be having this conniption fit.
Fair point. No way to really know, but I'm on the other side; I think fans would have been calling for the coach's head if a new guy had a similar start; just not as early. Definitely agree fan patience was zero for Gentry to start the year.
quote:
this team has just way better pieces than the record indicates.
That isn't quite right for me. There's talent, but, even in the more optimistic days, the question was how does it fit? It's an odd assortment of pieces, mostly young guys and role players. There is no one (player-Zion?? or coach) anchoring them and helping create an identity.
quote:
think Griffin has learned his lesson on overselling.
There was no overselling. He was just wrong on how quickly they could be competitive with this crew.
His goal was to sell tickets, announce to fans and the league that the Pels were moving towards being a competent franchise, and take some pressure off Zion.
If people believed Holiday was an MVP caliber player just because Griffin said it, thats on them. They need to watch more basketball.
If people thought they could trade Davis, bring in a bunch of young guys from a dumpster fire in LA, add 3 draft picks, and 2 vets to skip over rebuilding, they were fooling themselves.
This has always been about the next great Pels team built around Zion in 3-5 years. They tried to be more competitive right away. It just hasn't worked out for a variety of reasons. Not a huge loss in the larger scheme.
The key is Griffin et al have to learn something about their core and how to build a good team around it over the next 50+ games.
Posted on 12/21/19 at 11:06 am to corndeaux
quote:
That isn't quite right for me. There's talent, but, even in the more optimistic days, the question was how does it fit? It's an odd assortment of pieces, mostly young guys and role players. There is no one (player-Zion?? or coach) anchoring them and helping create an identity.
The team played so much better earlier in the season. We took the Raptors to overtime, we should have beaten the Lakers, etc.
The team is getting worse.
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