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Message
re: Anthony Davis leading all rookies with 14 double doubles
Posted on 3/11/13 at 11:15 am to CP3forMVP
Posted on 3/11/13 at 11:15 am to CP3forMVP
quote:
The thing with Lillard is that he will never be an efficient scorer.
And how do you know that?? Not trying to sound like an arse but you cant sit there and tell me Lilliard wont improve on his efficiency. Already at 43% from the field and about 36% from 3. He might not be as efficent as AD, but thats because hes a guard and plays away from the rim. Curry and Carmelo are both shooting just 44% and Lilliard is right at 43% in his rookie year. Westbrook is only shooting 43% and is he not a star? Paul George, D Will and Batum are shooting 42% and everyone loves them. Same with Joe Johnson, Luol Deng, Paul Pierce, Monte Ellis, John Wall, Brandon Jennings, and Klay Thompson. Lilliard is shooting better than all them. And they are some big time NBA players. And turnover ratio improves too. There are a few things that all rookies struggle at during there 1st year and its FG% and turnover rate. They all get better the older they get. Well maybe not all, Westbrook still struggles with this but he is 1 of the most talented guys in the NBA.
Lilliard will improve on his efficiency and turnover rate the older he gets, just the majority of NBA players do. He's already responsible for 30% of his teams scoring. 19 scoring himself and 12 more on assists. Pretty impressive. And, he's already turned into there most important player minus Aldridge. Also, the Blazers are strictly a jump shooting team. The only player that lives in the paint is JJ Hickson, and he's putting up career numbers with Lilliard so far. If they can get some more help off the bench and add a solid C that likes to bang around in the paint, that will help Lilliard tremendously.
O and he is already a borderline star. So is AD. I'm not making this an AD vs Lilliard. Both are going to be great. But to say Lilliard won't improve is absurd. Both will be great NBA players.
This post was edited on 3/11/13 at 11:38 am
1
Posted on 3/11/13 at 11:28 am to drake20
I'm really not sure where everyone is getting this "Lillard won't be a superstar" thing from
Dude's in a VERY elite category historically as far as rookie years are concerned
Sounds like our guy isn't going to win ROY sour grapes to me
Dude's in a VERY elite category historically as far as rookie years are concerned
Sounds like our guy isn't going to win ROY sour grapes to me
Posted on 3/11/13 at 11:32 am to danman6336
quote:
I'm really not sure where everyone is getting this "Lillard won't be a superstar" thing from Dude's in a VERY elite category historically as far as rookie years are concerned Sounds like our guy isn't going to win ROY sour grapes to me
Haha completely agree Danman completely agree. And I've said that if AD would play 30+ minutes a night he would def be neck and neck with Lillard for ROY, but he doesn't. If you want to get mad at something for that then get mad at Monty, don't hate on Lillard.
This post was edited on 3/11/13 at 11:33 am
Posted on 3/11/13 at 11:47 am to danman6336
quote:if the t-wolves could've just sucked a little bit harder
I'm really not sure where everyone is getting this "Lillard won't be a superstar" thing from
Dude's in a VERY elite category historically as far as rookie years are concerned
Posted on 3/11/13 at 11:49 am to KG5989
meh...paul and westbrook were 20 when they came in the league.
Westbrook and Paul are MUCH better defenders.
It's not difficult to take shots, but it is difficult to be an efficient player...CP3 could have scored just as much as Lillard if he played more minutes/took more shots....He's better in just about every other category and 2 years younger(PER of 22)...Lillard will never enter Paul's universe.
Lillard is having a better season than Westbrook's rookie year. Westbrook has figured it out now though, and he has something that separates him from mostly all other PGs in the league--superior athleticism/explosiveness.
...Lillard doesn't have that. He could easily become only an inefficient scorer. He could hone his skills and get a lot better, sure. He's a good player, just not gonna be a top PG in the league, imo. Brandon Jennings with worse defense.
Westbrook and Paul are MUCH better defenders.
It's not difficult to take shots, but it is difficult to be an efficient player...CP3 could have scored just as much as Lillard if he played more minutes/took more shots....He's better in just about every other category and 2 years younger(PER of 22)...Lillard will never enter Paul's universe.
Lillard is having a better season than Westbrook's rookie year. Westbrook has figured it out now though, and he has something that separates him from mostly all other PGs in the league--superior athleticism/explosiveness.
...Lillard doesn't have that. He could easily become only an inefficient scorer. He could hone his skills and get a lot better, sure. He's a good player, just not gonna be a top PG in the league, imo. Brandon Jennings with worse defense.
Posted on 3/11/13 at 11:59 am to KG5989
quote:
Curry and Carmelo are both shooting just 44% and Lilliard is right at 43% in his rookie year. Westbrook is only shooting 43% and is he not a star? Paul George, D Will and Batum are shooting 42% and everyone loves them. Same with Joe Johnson, Luol Deng, Paul Pierce, Monte Ellis, John Wall, Brandon Jennings, and Klay Thompson.
...all those players you listed are either not superstars, or do something else well besides score (defense, rebound, passing).
quote:
He's already responsible for 30% of his teams scoring. 19 scoring himself and 12 more on assists. Pretty impressive. And, he's already turned into there most important player minus Aldridge.
...and they're not good.
No one is saying Lillard isn't a good player. I just don't know that he will be great. Scoring a lot of points with a mediocre percentage in a TON of minutes isn't that impressive. JMO.
With Davis, the writing is on the wall. He's already very good in 3 statistical categories, working on four...as well as posting an insane efficiency rating....and he's two years younger...on another planet.
Guards that can jack up shots are a dime a dozen.
Posted on 3/11/13 at 12:01 pm to KG5989
quote:
And I've said that if AD would play 30+ minutes a night he would def be neck and neck with Lillard for ROY, but he doesn't. If you want to get mad at something for that then get mad at Monty, don't hate on Lillard.
I think he'd be blowing him out of the water...but i'm not hating on Lillard...I just don't think he's gonna be superstar good. JMHO.
Posted on 3/11/13 at 12:04 pm to drake20
I get that they were younger, but a rookie is a rookie.
Lilllard isn't as explosive as Westbrook, but who in the NBA besides LBJ and a healthy DRose is? Nobody. And Lillard is already putting up the same #s as Jennings, but with a better FG and 3pt %, which is what people are knocking on him for.
In a few years, Lillard will become a top 5 PG IMO. Westbrook, Rose, Curry, Kyrie, and Holiday. Lillard is right in this pack of young PGs. Who would you have over Lillard from PGs that are 24 and younger that I didn't list? I'd rather him than JWall and Knight, I put Rose on that list because he is a stud, but we don't know how he will come back from that knee injury.
Lilllard isn't as explosive as Westbrook, but who in the NBA besides LBJ and a healthy DRose is? Nobody. And Lillard is already putting up the same #s as Jennings, but with a better FG and 3pt %, which is what people are knocking on him for.
In a few years, Lillard will become a top 5 PG IMO. Westbrook, Rose, Curry, Kyrie, and Holiday. Lillard is right in this pack of young PGs. Who would you have over Lillard from PGs that are 24 and younger that I didn't list? I'd rather him than JWall and Knight, I put Rose on that list because he is a stud, but we don't know how he will come back from that knee injury.
Posted on 3/11/13 at 12:04 pm to danman6336
quote:
I'm really not sure where everyone is getting this "Lillard won't be a superstar" thing from
Because he's old enough that he's not full of potential and he's padding his stats with a high usage rate on a bad team. I think superstar is overstating Lillard's potential, but he should have a pretty solid career. Interestingly enough, I used a few key stats like Offensive Win Shares, Defensive Win Shares, Usage and Turnover% and only one other player had a similar rookie season, Damon Stoudemire. Their rookie numbers are remarkably similar.
LINK
Posted on 3/11/13 at 12:06 pm to TigerinATL
just for comparison purposes, someone posted this on Reddit from a realgm forum:
[quote]"I watched the game and both rookies looked very good to me. At the same time it's pretty obvious they have completely different roles on their teams. Davis does have much higher "efficiency", but then 76% of Davis's shots are assisted while only 32% of Lillard's shots are. It's a lot easier for a player to have high efficiency when others are creating the offensive opportunities for him. Lillard has the responsibility of running Portland's offense most of the time, as well as creating his own offense. Much harder task and a heavier burden then Davis shoulders. I also noticed that the Hornets were double-teaming Lillard most of the night, while Davis wasn't doubled one time, at least not that I saw. My guess is that is a season long trend. I know it is for Lillard it's not a coincidence that Lillard's efficiency has jumped quite a bit in the last 8 games or so. Portland has had, for most of the season, two of the crappiest backup PG's in the league. That has forced Lillard to play tons of minutes while allowing defenses to attack him, pressure him, and wear him down...effectively limiting his efficiency. But since the Blazers added Eric Maynor, they've been able to relieve the pressure on Lillard a littl by allowing Maynor to run the offense. In March, Lillard is shooting over 53% FG's, and 42% on 3's. His assists haven't dropped, but his turnovers have. Granted..small sample size, but I've watched the games and it's obvious a little ball-handling help has worked wonders for Lillard and while you point to his efficiency, it's worth noting that it is as good as or better then a lot of other top-level PG's when they were also rookies: LINK LINK ]
[quote]"I watched the game and both rookies looked very good to me. At the same time it's pretty obvious they have completely different roles on their teams. Davis does have much higher "efficiency", but then 76% of Davis's shots are assisted while only 32% of Lillard's shots are. It's a lot easier for a player to have high efficiency when others are creating the offensive opportunities for him. Lillard has the responsibility of running Portland's offense most of the time, as well as creating his own offense. Much harder task and a heavier burden then Davis shoulders. I also noticed that the Hornets were double-teaming Lillard most of the night, while Davis wasn't doubled one time, at least not that I saw. My guess is that is a season long trend. I know it is for Lillard it's not a coincidence that Lillard's efficiency has jumped quite a bit in the last 8 games or so. Portland has had, for most of the season, two of the crappiest backup PG's in the league. That has forced Lillard to play tons of minutes while allowing defenses to attack him, pressure him, and wear him down...effectively limiting his efficiency. But since the Blazers added Eric Maynor, they've been able to relieve the pressure on Lillard a littl by allowing Maynor to run the offense. In March, Lillard is shooting over 53% FG's, and 42% on 3's. His assists haven't dropped, but his turnovers have. Granted..small sample size, but I've watched the games and it's obvious a little ball-handling help has worked wonders for Lillard and while you point to his efficiency, it's worth noting that it is as good as or better then a lot of other top-level PG's when they were also rookies: LINK LINK ]
Posted on 3/11/13 at 12:16 pm to drake20
quote:
...all those players you listed are either not superstars, or do something else well besides score (defense, rebound, passing).
All those players I've listed have either been to an all star game or they are a young up and coming all star like Batum and Thompson and JWall. Lillard averaged around 7 assists so he isn't just a scorer.
Yes, the Blazers suck. They have a solid starting 5, but they have the worst bench in the NBA. Also, they are 1 of the youngest teams in the NBA that has a lot of young talent. If they can get a C and some bench help, Lillard will improve in a lot of ways.
Lillard can score, assist, and knock down 3s. Those are his 3 categories that he's good at and will improve on. And hisnteam is strictly a jump shooting team, which makes it harder for him to assist. I mean Aldridge is always 15 ft from the rim and he's there PF. Per the player rater, Lilliard is a top 10 PG already, some list him as high as 5, and a top 30 player overall already, some have him as high as 18.
Again, this isn't a Lillard vs AD debate, so stop bringing up what the writing on the wall says about AD because I agree 100% on that. It's about people saying Lillard won't be a super star and won't be a top PG or a top player in the NBA, when he already is 1 of the best in the game.
Posted on 3/11/13 at 12:17 pm to KG5989
quote:
Lilllard isn't as explosive as Westbrook, but who in the NBA besides LBJ and a healthy DRose is? Nobody. And Lillard is already putting up the same #s as Jennings, but with a better FG and 3pt %, which is what people are knocking on him for.
I'm not arguing that Lillard can't become a top 5-10 PG, but that does not equal elite/superstar.
Davis is gonna be a top PF next season.
Posted on 3/11/13 at 12:22 pm to drake20
quote:
Davis is gonna be a top PF next season.
AD is going to be a top 10 PF next season, Lillard is already a top 10 PG this season.
Drake, I've said it multiple times and will say it again. This is not about AD or Lillard because I agree about everything with AD. He is going to be a complete stud. Not comparing them in any way. Just talking about Lillard and why people don't think he's going to be a great player, when he already is. So please stop bringing up the AD stuff because I agree 100% about him.
And what PG that ranks in the top 8 isn't a superstar in the NBA right now? Pretty much all of them are.
Posted on 3/11/13 at 12:22 pm to KG5989
quote:
In a few years, Lillard will become a top 5 PG IMO. Westbrook, Rose, Curry, Kyrie, and Holiday. Lillard is right in this pack of young PGs. Who would you have over Lillard from PGs that are 24 and younger that I didn't list? I'd rather him than JWall and Knight, I put Rose on that list because he is a stud, but we don't know how he will come back from that knee injury.
Paul, Rondo, D. Williams, Parker, Conley, and Rubio aren't going anywhere for a while.
Posted on 3/11/13 at 12:26 pm to drake20
I'd take Lillard over Rubio and Conley.
Rondo just tore his ACL. Wait and see what he's like when he gets back, though I don't think it'll hurt him
D Will is finally on a good team and is having a down year.
O and if you read my post, it said what PG under 24 would you want over Lillard. Only guy you posted that is in that category would be Rubio, and I'd rather have Lillard than Rubio.
Quailman, great find.
Rondo just tore his ACL. Wait and see what he's like when he gets back, though I don't think it'll hurt him
D Will is finally on a good team and is having a down year.
O and if you read my post, it said what PG under 24 would you want over Lillard. Only guy you posted that is in that category would be Rubio, and I'd rather have Lillard than Rubio.
Quailman, great find.
This post was edited on 3/11/13 at 12:30 pm
Posted on 3/11/13 at 12:31 pm to KG5989
quote:
Lilllard isn't as explosive as Westbrook, but who in the NBA besides LBJ and a healthy DRose is?
You are skewing the argument to make your point. A more relevant list would be a list of all players more explosive than Lillard. That list is much longer.
Posted on 3/11/13 at 12:32 pm to KG5989
quote:
Lillard can assist
6.4 assists per game...#15 among PGs...tied with 1st in minutes among those 15...so he's OK.
quote:
Lillard can score and knock down 3s
...Most PGs that can score can knock down 3s. They kind of go hand in hand.
quote:
Again, this isn't a Lillard vs AD debate, so stop bringing up what the writing on the wall says about AD because I agree 100% on that.
I got you.
quote:
It's about people saying Lillard won't be a super star and won't be a top PG or a top player in the NBA, when he already is 1 of the best in the game.
I just don't see the evidence for this.
Posted on 3/11/13 at 12:32 pm to KG5989
quote:
AD is going to be a top 10 PF next season, Lillard is already a top 10 PG this season.
Considering Davis is 4th in PER among PFs and Lillard is 23rd, this is absurd.
Posted on 3/11/13 at 12:33 pm to KG5989
quote:
KG5989
How many Lillard posters do you have in your room? You're bordering on man crush territory here.
This post was edited on 3/11/13 at 12:34 pm
Posted on 3/11/13 at 12:46 pm to drake20
quote:
I just don't see the evidence for this.
LINK
LINK
Yes he can assist. And it's on a team without a post up guy that lives in the paint. Again, a jump shooting squad that likes to play on the perimeter.
Saying most PGs that score can knock down 3s is not true. Rondo can score, but can't make a 3. Tony Parker scores 21 a game but only makes 0.4 3s a game. Lillard is top 5 in 3s made per game with 2.2 out of PGs and is top 20 out of all positions.
That's like saying any C or PF that is tall can rebound or block shots, they go hand in hand. And that's not true.
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