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re: 2019 Re-Draft
Posted on 3/11/21 at 1:06 pm to TeddyPadillac
Posted on 3/11/21 at 1:06 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Saddiq Bey or Desmond bane
yeah. I was a bey guy for pels.
he will be all rookie team.
I doubt hes ever a 2nd team all nba.
just a well coached solid guy.
bane is apparently the real frigging deal. .I was not aware.
hes two way star a coming.
hes starting now and may keep first team even after jaren jr comes back.
this Memphis team will be very deep.
pels could buy Melton now.
hes good all around. well paid though.
0
Posted on 3/11/21 at 2:04 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
That's why i said this:
With the 4th pick, you're chances of finding an all-star is much higher than at 8.
The best player drafted at 8 this century was Rudy Gay. The next best players are role players at best, although we'll see what Collin Sexton becomes.
The 4th pick has yielded CP3, Westbrook, Conley, Bosh, Porzingis, and we'll see what Jaren Jackson becomes but he's an all star caliber talent after 2 years.
Yes, but not every year is the same. This coming draft, the #4 pick will definitely have that potential, as the draft is deep at the top. But in 2019, it was widely acknowledged as a 3-man draft class (oh, I know a few of you disagreed -- you don't need to remind me how much smarter you are than most NBA GMs).
In the context of that draft, trading out of #4 wasn't a bad move at all, especially with the reports that Griffin had Hayes and Culver about equally rated for the pick.
The failure wasn't the trade -- it was in the draft evaluation of Jaxson Hayes. It was in failing to see Hayes's lack of work ethic and love for the game.
Posted on 3/11/21 at 2:10 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
The failure wasn't the trade -- it was in the draft evaluation of Jaxson Hayes. It was in failing to see Hayes's lack of work ethic and love for the game.
That's what i said too.
also it was failing to see the long history of picking athletic bigs with lots of raw potential that haven't shown true offensive skills in college that ended up as busts. If an althetic big had skills, he pretty much went #1 like AD and Embiid. All the raw guys usually end up as busts, so the risk with drafting Hayes was huge.
Posted on 3/11/21 at 2:16 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
When has a Griff led team made a good decision in the draft?
Well, in Cleveland they were in win now mode with James, so that doesn't count.
The rest if his tenure, he drafted some guy named Zion Williamson, who's been alright. He has 2 other guys that are average players for their draft positions.
This year his team took a guy that in limited playing time, looked pretty good.
Posted on 3/11/21 at 2:24 pm to TeddyPadillac
This logic is just still pretty lost on me here.
Trading down only becomes justifiable if you actually execute it right.
Saying well, if only he had gotten the most critical part right(the actual picks you traded down and made) this wouldn’t be that bad, therefore trading down was fine, doesn’t work for me.
He traded down specifically because he had bad draft grades on players.
Trading down only becomes justifiable if you actually execute it right.
Saying well, if only he had gotten the most critical part right(the actual picks you traded down and made) this wouldn’t be that bad, therefore trading down was fine, doesn’t work for me.
He traded down specifically because he had bad draft grades on players.
Posted on 3/11/21 at 2:25 pm to TeddyPadillac
I think it's even worse than a simple scouting miss. It's an over-valuation of the center position.
Jarrett Allen was traded for a 2022 Milwaukee 1st, so likely a pick in the late 20s. Indy couldn't get anyone to give them a mid 1st for Myles Turner. Those 2 are best case scenarios for non star centers that develop quickly.
Given that, it's seems like really bad value to use a top 10 pick on a non star center.
Jarrett Allen was traded for a 2022 Milwaukee 1st, so likely a pick in the late 20s. Indy couldn't get anyone to give them a mid 1st for Myles Turner. Those 2 are best case scenarios for non star centers that develop quickly.
Given that, it's seems like really bad value to use a top 10 pick on a non star center.
Posted on 3/11/21 at 2:28 pm to Soggymoss
quote:
The rest if his tenure, he drafted some guy named Zion Williamson
That’s like calling Dell Demps a great draft GM for getting AD.
He’s a guy literally 30 out of 30 teams(and any GM currently unemployed) would have taken first in that draft.
A GM builds or breaks their draft legacies by navigating the non obvious selections.
And it’s fair to remain skeptical of Griff, who in the examples we have has ranged from spotty to pretty damn poor.
I’m hoping(and thinking) bringing in the former Bulls GM, who has found a lot of draft value over the years, is part of the process of acknowledging the weakness and looking to improve
This post was edited on 3/11/21 at 2:47 pm
Posted on 3/11/21 at 3:20 pm to Soggymoss
quote:
Well, in Cleveland they were in win now mode with James, so that doesn't count.
SO you do realize he was VP of basketball operations from 2010-2014, and then GM from 2014 to 2017 right? And don't tell me he didn't have any say so when he was VP, b/c he said the Bennett choice was his, and he fricked it up. They had a vote on taking Bennett #1 and it was 9-1 in favor of drafting him #1, with the one nay vote being the actual GM Chris Grant.
His first draft there was in 2011, with the no brainer of Kyrie Irving #1. Then they picked Tristan Thompson at #4. Valanciunas went 5, Vucevic was 16, the Morris twins were 13 and 14, Klay Thompson, Kawhi, Kemba.
in 2012 they picked Waiters at #4, two selections later was Damian Lillard. they then traded 24,33,34 to move up to 17 to get Tyler Zeller. Crowder was 34, Draymond 35, Middleton 39
in 2013 he chose Anthony Bennet. Enough said... almost. They also had the 19th pick, and chose Sergey Karasev. The next 8 guys drafted are still in the NBA, Karasev lasted 3 years and did nothing. They traded out of the 31st spot on draft day for two future 2nds. Alan Crabbe was pick 31, granted he didn't amount to much, he had a nice start to his career. They kept the 33rd pick though, and selected Carrick Felix, who played a 7 career nba games.
in 2014 they got Lebron back and traded Wiggins for Love. They drafted Joe Harris at 34. I guess Lebron didn't like Joe. He did nothing there in the two years
in 2015 they traded the 24th pick Tyus Jones to move down and get Cedi Osman at 31 and Rakeem Christmas at 36.
They had no picks the next two years b/c of acquiring Love and getting rid of bad salaries.
I know you can play revisionist history with any team, but the point is he's had a history of making poor decision in the draft outside of the two no brainer picks of Kyrie and Zion. Either he sucks at evaluating, or he sucks at surrounding himself with competent evaluators.
Posted on 3/11/21 at 3:47 pm to TigerinATL
quote:Agree. Also not the best decision to trade a future 1st and 2 2nds for a $30 million old-school center with a lot of miles on his body.
I think it's even worse than a simple scouting miss. It's an over-valuation of the center position.
Jarrett Allen was traded for a 2022 Milwaukee 1st, so likely a pick in the late 20s. Indy couldn't get anyone to give them a mid 1st for Myles Turner. Those 2 are best case scenarios for non star centers that develop quickly.
Given that, it's seems like really bad value to use a top 10 pick on a non star center.
Posted on 3/11/21 at 4:08 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
also it was failing to see the long history of picking athletic bigs with lots of raw potential that haven't shown true offensive skills in college that ended up as busts. If an althetic big had skills, he pretty much went #1 like AD and Embiid. All the raw guys usually end up as busts, so the risk with drafting Hayes was huge.
What's about Mobley ? Is he skilled ?
I saw some highlights on youtube of him and honestly, his post move is bad, he isn't pretty bulky, he does not manage to push his defender when he is at post.
But he seems to be good at shooting.
This post was edited on 3/11/21 at 4:09 pm
Posted on 3/11/21 at 5:24 pm to nicj4
I know nothing about any draft picks this year. The only college basketball I’ve paid attention to have been LSU weekday games.
Posted on 3/11/21 at 5:52 pm to nicj4
quote:
I saw some highlights on youtube of him and honestly, his post move is bad, he isn't pretty bulky, he does not manage to push his defender when he is at post.
But he seems to be good at shooting.
I’m not gonna call myself an expert, but he seems to have some AD to his scoring game. In that like AD, his skillset is more around his athleticism, finesse, and ability to ball handle and drive as a big man. Not so much out maneuver you in the post ala Embiid. He is definitely finesse though, not a bruiser like Zion when driving.
His jumper isn’t as broken as AD’s coming out of college, but like AD he needs to refine both his handle and his jump shot to translate that into being a high level skill in the NBA. Though all those areas mentioned he’s a bit more polished out the gate.
He also projects to be a better passer than his college numbers suggest, not Zion good probably, but he’ll probably be leading fast breaks regularly within a couple seasons and probably passing well out of the post and on drives
He’s praised defensively, but I’d also caution against assuming that will easily translate because it rarely does. AD took years to not just be a weak side stat chaser that regularly made big mistakes in team defense. But he does have that unicorn ability to both protect the rim and switch out onto guards and not get exposed.
He’s probably one of the only true big men since AD or Embiid that I’d be comfortable taking in the top part of a draft. But he’s gonna be a guy that needs some time to develop IMO.
Posted on 3/11/21 at 8:36 pm to nicj4
quote:
What's about Mobley ? Is he skilled ?
yes.
fabulous
worth trading up for.
Orlando has vucevic.
give them a couple firsts and any one guy not named zion or ingram.
or better yet luck into a really high lottery pick.
take Mobley .
kispert is the premier shooter but Mobley is going to be Hall of Famer.
kispert is a delicious 2nd prize.
he is not even top 5 in mocks.
lol.
pels would be lucky he falls in their laps.
This post was edited on 3/11/21 at 9:10 pm
Posted on 3/12/21 at 7:27 am to Bronc
quote:
The goal with the draft and a rebuild is to put a contender together with a stable core. JJ is not going to be on this team past this year. Getting off Solo’s contract didn’t materially change anything toward that goal.
i'm tired of making this point. what did acquiring JJ do for us? jack and shite. dumping solo to get JJ isn't some huge win
dumping garland/hunter for Jaxson/NAW was a huge L (as of now) and both Garland/Hunter have sustained major injuries. THAT is how bad the draft capital deficit has been
Posted on 3/12/21 at 7:30 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
But in 2019, it was widely acknowledged as a 3-man draft class
it was a 2-tier top-heavy draft
first tier was 1-2 (Zion/Ja) then a tier 3-7, and then it was a crapshoot
we dealt 4 for...2 picks after the 2nd tier. and it's showing
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