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Message
What is Your Criteria for a Great Lyricist? And/or some Examples?
Posted on 6/1/13 at 10:12 am
Posted on 6/1/13 at 10:12 am
This thread idea was born in the 2pac vs. Jay Z thread, where there was some disagreement about Tupac's ability as a lyricist. But I want to open this up to all genres.
What's your criteria for what makes up a good lyricist?
OR
Who, in your opinion, is the best/are some of the best lyricists in music?
What's your criteria for what makes up a good lyricist?
OR
Who, in your opinion, is the best/are some of the best lyricists in music?
This post was edited on 6/1/13 at 10:24 am
22
Posted on 6/1/13 at 10:18 am to inadaze
quote:
What is Your Criteria for a Great Lyricist?
quote:
2pac vs. Jay Z
Posted on 6/1/13 at 10:20 am to inadaze
Brandon Boyd, Myles Kennedy, and Cliff Burton are all great lyricists.
Uses a lot of metaphors, maybe alludes to different historical situations to explain a point or concepts. Great rhyme schemes as well flowing stanza structure for me. Me no like simple lyrics unless instrumentals are heavy
Uses a lot of metaphors, maybe alludes to different historical situations to explain a point or concepts. Great rhyme schemes as well flowing stanza structure for me. Me no like simple lyrics unless instrumentals are heavy
Posted on 6/1/13 at 10:21 am to inadaze
thought provoking both in content and delivery
example from the GOAT:
example from the GOAT:
quote:
This rhythmatic explosion
Is what your frame of mind has chosen
I'll leave your brain stimulated,
***** is frozen
Speak with criminal slang,
begin like a violin
End like Leviathan,
it's deep, well, let me try again
Wisdom be leakin' out my grapefruit troop
I dominate break loops,
givin' mics menstrual cycles
Street's disciple,
I rock beats that's mega trifle
An' groovy but smoother than moves by Villanova
You're still a soldier,
I'm like Sly Stone in 'Cobra'
Packin' like a rasta in the weed spot
Vocals'll squeeze glocks,
MC's eavesdrop
Though they need not to sneak,
my poetry's deep I never fell,
Nas's raps should be locked in a cell
It ain't hard to tell
Posted on 6/1/13 at 10:29 am to Draconian Sanctions
horrible. anybody can right down phrases that rhyme. that's absolute garbage, when i read that i felt nothing, i get no sense of the time, or where the artist is at. all i see is rhyming words.
this is lyricism...
see how pac ryhymes with such fluid flow while give us a snapshot into a place that we can't be. it's art really. he captures LA for a black man in the early 90s better than a photo would
i just re-read that above post and that has to be a joke.
what the frick does this even mean.
spaghetti spaghetti!
this is lyricism...
quote:
Picture me rollin in my 500 Benz
I got no love for these niggaz,
there's no need to be friends, They got me under surveillance, that's what somebody be tellin
Know there's dope bein sold,
but +I+ ain't the one sellin!
Don't want to be another number I got a frickin gang of weed to keep from goin under
The federales wanna see me dead - niggaz put prices on my head
Now I got two Rottwillers by me bed, I feed em lead
Now I'm released, how will I live? Will God forgive me for all the dirt a **** did, to feed kids?
One life to live, it's so hard to be positive when niggaz shootin at your crib
Mama, I'm still thuggin, the world is a war zone My homies is inmates, and most of them dead wrong Full grown, finally a man, just scheamin on ways to put some green inside the palms of my empty hands
Just picture me rollin Flossin a Benz on rims that isn't stolen
My dreams is censored, my hopes are gone I'm like a fiend that finally sees when all the dope is gone
My nerves is wrecked, heart beatin and my hands is swollen
thinkin of the G's I'll be holdin, picture me rollin
see how pac ryhymes with such fluid flow while give us a snapshot into a place that we can't be. it's art really. he captures LA for a black man in the early 90s better than a photo would
i just re-read that above post and that has to be a joke.
quote:
You're still a soldier, I'm like Sly Stone in 'Cobra' Packin' like a rasta in the weed spot Vocals'll squeeze glocks, MC's eavesdrop Though they need not to sneak, my poetry's deep I never fell, Nas's raps should be locked in a cell It ain't hard to tell
what the frick does this even mean.
spaghetti spaghetti!
This post was edited on 6/1/13 at 10:35 am
Posted on 6/1/13 at 10:44 am to inadaze
quote:
Who, in your opinion, is the best/are some of the best lyricists in music?
Maynard
quote:
Standing above the crowd,
He had a voice that was strong and loud and I
Swallowed his facade cuz I'm so
Eager to identify with
Someone above the ground,
Someone who seemed to feel the same,
Someone prepared to lead the way, with
Someone who would die for me.
Will you? Will you now?
Would you die for me?
Don't you frickin lie.
Don't you step out of line.
Don't you step out of line.
Don't you step out of line.
Don't you frickin lie.
You've claimed all this time that you would die for me.
Why then are you so surprised when you hear your own
Eulogy?
He had a lot to say.
He had a lot of nothing to say.
He had a lot to say.
He had a lot of nothing to say.
Come down.
Get off your frickin cross.
We need the frickin space to nail the next fool martyr.
To ascend you must die.
You must be crucified
For our sins and our lies.
Goodbye!
Posted on 6/1/13 at 11:02 am to trillhog
quote:
that's absolute garbage
Posted on 6/1/13 at 11:09 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
what the frick does this even mean.
I guess I will go through it line by line:
quote:
You're still a soldier, I'm like Sly Stone in Cobra
Stallone’s Cobra was a renegade cop who refused to play by the rules; Nas is like him, while you’re “still a soldier,” following the rules, doing as you’re told, and failing to innovate.
quote:
Packing like a Rasta in the weed spot, vocals'll squeeze Glocks
Is Nas carrying a gun? Does a rasta smoke weed?
quote:
MC's eavesdrop though they need not to sneak
A lot of other MCs tried to jack his style and pass it off as their own (Jigga included)
quote:
My poetry's deep
His lyrics nearly always have a deep meaning to them. They are important, not just simple “I get money and women” rap that can be heard today.
quote:
Nas' raps should be locked in a cell, it ain't hard to tell
#1 Nas' raps are so powerful and dangerous that they have to be controlled, thus likening them to a criminal
#2 His rhymes are so important that to ensure they are never lost or forgotten, they must be stored away in a secure way
This line asserts that prisons don’t hold that which is unfit for society, but that they hold that which is too powerful for it. In this sense, he claims that incarceration is not the weak being reformed by society, but the powerful being oppressed. Likewise, it means his rhymes are feared by society and defy it in the same way his incarcerated comrades have.
Note that this is the last bar of the entire album. The first bar (of rhyming) is “yeah, straight out the frickin' dungeons of rap/ where fake niggas don’t make it back.” This structure, with the last line leading directly back to the first one, gives the album a kind of Finnegans Wake looping structure.
Posted on 6/1/13 at 11:10 am to Draconian Sanctions
I will also say that I do like 2Pac but I prefer NaS style of verbal imagery to Pac's talking about where he is in his life.
I would never be so ignorant as call him garbage though, like you are with Nas.
I would never be so ignorant as call him garbage though, like you are with Nas.
Posted on 6/1/13 at 11:28 am to inadaze
word play, vocab, and how well you can form sentences within the beat are a part it. Gotta make me think about what they're saying.
not one of the greatest, but he is still underrated imo. From part of J. Cole - 3 Wishes:
not one of the greatest, but he is still underrated imo. From part of J. Cole - 3 Wishes:
quote:
Yeah grew up with killers, I didn't know they was killers
We was just together man, playing Mega-man on Sega man
Your mama loved me to death, she reminded me of Afeni
Yeah real black queen
If I had a genie,
I wish that she ain't struggle no more
Y'all wouldn't have to go to sleep with all the roaches if she wasn't so poor
You told me when you came to my house
This shite was like a timeout from reality
One night you asked me what I'm crying about
'Cause you was staying over for the weekend
I woke up from out my sleep
When I heard mama and my stepfather beefin
I don't know if he been drinkin
But I know this shite got loud and I heard rumbling from struggling
And rolling on the ground
Could never get used to that sound
My mama saying get off me
My tears is tumbling now
I wish that you never saw me
'Cause I felt like a coward, so powerless I was only 12
I wish I would'be bust through that door my fricking self
And grab the Glock right off the fricking shelf
If nothing else scared a n***a shitless
There goes two of my wishes
Posted on 6/1/13 at 11:34 am to inadaze
Oh, you mean rap.
Posted on 6/1/13 at 11:47 am to Draconian Sanctions
you should stick to the rant
This post was edited on 6/1/13 at 11:48 am
Posted on 6/1/13 at 12:21 pm to trillhog
quote:
you should stick to the rant
what a well thought out and explained retort!
Posted on 6/1/13 at 12:23 pm to inadaze
quote:
This thread idea was born in the 2pac vs. Jay Z thread, where there was some disagreement about Tupac's ability as a lyricist. But I want to open this up to all genres
Honestly, most rap lyrics are shitty. And the better ones are still mediocre IMO. I'm still waiting for a rap artist to emerge that can produce quality lyrics comparable to the lyrical titans of other genres.
quote:
What's your criteria for what makes up a good lyricist?
Qualities of good lyrics:
-Thought provoking.
-Multi-dimensional or deeper meanings can be found.
-Clever use of rhyme and other poetic techniques.
-The message or story provide a unique perspective and isn't trite.
-There is an honest premise.
A big test for greatness is whether the words alone could stand up alone as poetry. This isn't a requirement, because sometimes simple lyrics can become more powerful with a masterful delivery by a vocalist.
quote:
Who, in your opinion, is the best/are some of the best lyricists in music?
Leonard Cohen
Bob Dylan
Paul Simon
Roger Waters
Conor Oberst
Posted on 6/1/13 at 12:33 pm to urinetrouble
Good list. I would add Neil Young, Nick Cave and Morrissey.
Posted on 6/1/13 at 1:20 pm to urinetrouble
quote:
Thought provoking.
-Multi-dimensional or deeper meanings can be found.
-Clever use of rhyme and other poetic techniques.
-The message or story provide a unique perspective and isn't trite.
-There is an honest premise.
So you mean Rap.
Posted on 6/1/13 at 1:22 pm to urinetrouble
They say Candyman, Candyman, spit me a dream
Blow a chunk of the levee out and spit me a stream
Knock a man's house down and build a casin-
A two thousand dollar government check from FEM-
I swam down shite's creek and came up clean
With a new lease on life like Andy Dufresne
Its the most poetical, Nat King unforgettable
Clarence 13X Allah's rhapsody from Bellevue
I'm splitting atoms, spitting flames
Bringing change, things will never be the same
I got the rap game singing At Last like Etta James
Lames get they plane shot down like John McCain
It's a dream, it's a dream
The flow is elegant like Miss Coretta Scott King
A lot of kings seen death and turn queen
Crack they twenty-four inch rims in the ravine
Respect the architect, never test the Elohim
Goodnight, this is Jay Elec, live from New Orleans
the above has all of that.
another example:
Smile on my face, tears of a sad clown
Feeling out of place as I whistle a cab down
If I tip extra, can I huff a cig'?
Blow my smoke out the window, dropping ashes on the bridge
I'm in New York now, like Akeem and Semmi was
Tryna get the lobby door open from a semi-buzz
I just wanna go to the slum
And throw my money on the floor like the Notorious BUM, uh
Build a home, teach a class, start a revolution
Free the mind, heal the body, talking evolution
This that black Elohim Anunnaki rap
That Farrakhan Hakeem Olajuwon Qaddafi rap
I dedicate this to my niggas in New Orleans
Rocking black and gold stocking caps and fleur-de-lis Shockey hats
I'm in the courtroom, screaming 'Who Dat?' on the devil
Serving gumbo with a shovel, dog I'm on another level
Me and Kweli come together like two pieces of metal
We magnetizing the ghetto
Blow a chunk of the levee out and spit me a stream
Knock a man's house down and build a casin-
A two thousand dollar government check from FEM-
I swam down shite's creek and came up clean
With a new lease on life like Andy Dufresne
Its the most poetical, Nat King unforgettable
Clarence 13X Allah's rhapsody from Bellevue
I'm splitting atoms, spitting flames
Bringing change, things will never be the same
I got the rap game singing At Last like Etta James
Lames get they plane shot down like John McCain
It's a dream, it's a dream
The flow is elegant like Miss Coretta Scott King
A lot of kings seen death and turn queen
Crack they twenty-four inch rims in the ravine
Respect the architect, never test the Elohim
Goodnight, this is Jay Elec, live from New Orleans
quote:
Qualities of good lyrics: -Thought provoking. -Multi-dimensional or deeper meanings can be found. -Clever use of rhyme and other poetic techniques. -The message or story provide a unique perspective and isn't trite. -There is an honest premise.
the above has all of that.
another example:
Smile on my face, tears of a sad clown
Feeling out of place as I whistle a cab down
If I tip extra, can I huff a cig'?
Blow my smoke out the window, dropping ashes on the bridge
I'm in New York now, like Akeem and Semmi was
Tryna get the lobby door open from a semi-buzz
I just wanna go to the slum
And throw my money on the floor like the Notorious BUM, uh
Build a home, teach a class, start a revolution
Free the mind, heal the body, talking evolution
This that black Elohim Anunnaki rap
That Farrakhan Hakeem Olajuwon Qaddafi rap
I dedicate this to my niggas in New Orleans
Rocking black and gold stocking caps and fleur-de-lis Shockey hats
I'm in the courtroom, screaming 'Who Dat?' on the devil
Serving gumbo with a shovel, dog I'm on another level
Me and Kweli come together like two pieces of metal
We magnetizing the ghetto
Posted on 6/1/13 at 1:28 pm to rutiger
quote:
rutiger
somebody like Jay Elec
Posted on 6/1/13 at 1:32 pm to rutiger
Yea, Jay is pretty damn good from the little I've heard from him.
When the hell is the album coming out!?
When the hell is the album coming out!?
Posted on 6/1/13 at 1:40 pm to urinetrouble
quote:
When the hell is the album coming out!?
never
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