re: "Techno" "Alternative" and "Punk" - Three Very Abused Words

I can agree on Patti Smith

But, I cant classify Talking Heads or Blondie as punk rock, they may have been sharing the stage at CBGBs in the 70's with punk bands, but I don't consider them that...

I know what you're saying as punk being more of a movement, but at some point it is about music and sound, too

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But, I cant classify Talking Heads or Blondie as punk rock, they may have been sharing the stage at CBGBs in the 70's with punk bands, but I don't consider them that...

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Well, that's what it was. And that's why this a very useful thread. It is a very abused word.

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I know what you're saying as punk being more of a movement, but at some point it is about music and sound, too

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Only because the word changed from something with meaning to a misused word.

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I'm not going to spend too much time on SFP-style arguments with you.

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SFP Boom!

"Punk" magazine was started in 1975 to document the CBGB's "new music" scene. It is the first mainstream usage of the word "punk" to describe a genre of music, so I think they at least get to say who is a punk band. Blondie was featured on the cover of the magazine (as was the Sex Pistols, showing the scene exploding past the borders). Talking Heads were covered by the magazine and considered a "punk" band BY THE POEPLE WHO COINED THE FRIGGIN' TERM.

I think any definition of punk which excludes the very people the term was coined to describe is simply wrong.

The concept of punk is Year Zero - that we are throwing out all pop music which came before and starting over. Any band which subscribes to the 1977 Year Zero philosophy is, by definition, punk. Though I do think the definition has even further expanded over the years to include DIY bands who operate outside the major label machinery.

YAY......I partially agree with the crazy person......

"Punk rock" originally referred to 1960s garage bands like ? & The Mysterians, The Swingin' Medallions, The McCoys etc. The Ramones, heavily influenced by these bands, were described (by themselves?) as "punk rock" -- so the original meaning of the term did change. However, in its 1970s sense -- the sense in which it is generally used today -- it was never intended to be broadly inclusive.

The term "new wave" , FWIW, was allegedly coined by Sire Records owner Seymour Stein to describe the Ramones, as he knew US radio chains would be reluctant to play anything labeled as "punk"

Lestr Bangs did use the term "punk rock" to describe ? and the Mysterions and later Iggy Pop, but if you read his work (which I highly highly recommend - he's beyond great), he never really used it as a genre label. More as a way to generally describe the sound. It was used by Creem magazine and practically no one else.

The term "Punk" as used as a Genre label was meant to be included. Particularly because the two biggest early punk icons were Richard Hell and Patti Smith, neither of whom sound or look much like the Ramones.

You've already gone into why New Wave is a sham to sell records to kids.

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(Richard Hell's wardrobe was famously copied by Malcolm Maclaren)

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Yeah, but at least he brushed his teeth.

Yeah, the people who eventually used it as a genre label was Legs McNiel and punk magazine (also, when he wrote the oral history of punk, he included Talking Heads and Blondie). Which just pulls away from the larger point - arguing over who fits in a classification is a waste of time. I'm a big tent guy -- if you want to be called X, then you're X. Who cares?

I like genre labels just as a way to give you an idea of what band sounds like. If I say "mumblecore", you have an idea of what the band sounds like before you here a note. But I really don't care about genre purity.