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Started By
Message
Squier Mini Strat upgrades for son
Posted on 8/27/23 at 11:26 am
Posted on 8/27/23 at 11:26 am
I actually mentioned this in the thread about a first guitar. My 8 y/o son has a Squier Mini Strat. It's awful. Doesn't stay in tune and intonation is impossible to set. His guitar teacher even suggested he start using my guitars because it's so bad, it's affecting the quality of the lesson. Problem is, a full scale guitar is just too big. He can play it, but its much more difficult.
After some research, people suggest heavier gauge strings. Apparently low tension due to shorter scale is a big reason for lack of tuning stability. I also grabbed some nut lube for the nut a bridge saddles. If this doesn't help, my next step is tuners and a new bridge. Any suggestions for a quality, but not super pricey set of tuners and a top loading hardtail bridge? I realize this guitar is not typically worth dumping a ton of money into, but it fits him, and there aren't many options for electric guitars this size. So willing to spend more than I should to set it up. But only want to spend what I have to in order to get something worth while, and no more.
I have a woodorking shop and not afraid to widen tuner holes, or simple things to make parts work, within reason. So not too worried about compatibility.
After some research, people suggest heavier gauge strings. Apparently low tension due to shorter scale is a big reason for lack of tuning stability. I also grabbed some nut lube for the nut a bridge saddles. If this doesn't help, my next step is tuners and a new bridge. Any suggestions for a quality, but not super pricey set of tuners and a top loading hardtail bridge? I realize this guitar is not typically worth dumping a ton of money into, but it fits him, and there aren't many options for electric guitars this size. So willing to spend more than I should to set it up. But only want to spend what I have to in order to get something worth while, and no more.
I have a woodorking shop and not afraid to widen tuner holes, or simple things to make parts work, within reason. So not too worried about compatibility.
4
Posted on 8/27/23 at 11:46 am to Jon A thon
Their site is down for maintenance right now, but The Stratosphere.com is a good place to buy stuff like that. They part out guitars.
I've been happy with all of my purchases from them.
I built a mini-strat out of a $100 stewmac kit for a friend's kid. It turned out really good, but it appears they quit selling that kit.
I still have one of their mini- telly kits that I haven't put together yet. It's a nice little kit. Solid Mahogany body and Mahogany neck. The Stewmac stuff is pretty good.
I've been happy with all of my purchases from them.
I built a mini-strat out of a $100 stewmac kit for a friend's kid. It turned out really good, but it appears they quit selling that kit.
I still have one of their mini- telly kits that I haven't put together yet. It's a nice little kit. Solid Mahogany body and Mahogany neck. The Stewmac stuff is pretty good.
This post was edited on 8/27/23 at 12:18 pm
Posted on 8/27/23 at 11:54 am to Jon A thon
He doesn’t need a mini guitar. There is a 9-year old girl that plays bass on YouTube.
Posted on 8/27/23 at 11:55 am to Jon A thon
So this is more a problem due to the short scale and not the brand?
Posted on 8/27/23 at 11:59 am to shutterspeed
quote:
short scale
I hate short scale
Posted on 8/27/23 at 12:17 pm to shutterspeed
The guitar itself is still shite outside of the tuning.
I'm just trying to get it playable in tune to learn. He's learning sheet music to play duets with his teacher and it can't stay in tune through 4 lines of music to play along.
I've read varying things. The string tension due to scale length reasoning is the quickest and easiest theory to try. Also read of people changing tuners and bridge, but I'll save that until after I try the strings (hope to do that this evening).
I'm just trying to get it playable in tune to learn. He's learning sheet music to play duets with his teacher and it can't stay in tune through 4 lines of music to play along.
I've read varying things. The string tension due to scale length reasoning is the quickest and easiest theory to try. Also read of people changing tuners and bridge, but I'll save that until after I try the strings (hope to do that this evening).
Posted on 8/27/23 at 12:28 pm to Jon A thon
What is the scale length of those?
I know these Stewmac mini guitars are meant to be tuned in the 4th of standard tuning. A-D-G-C-E-A
They are 16.5" scale.
Maybe you could try tuning it a whole step higher than standard, and his teacher could capo on the 2nd fret.
I know these Stewmac mini guitars are meant to be tuned in the 4th of standard tuning. A-D-G-C-E-A
They are 16.5" scale.
Maybe you could try tuning it a whole step higher than standard, and his teacher could capo on the 2nd fret.
This post was edited on 8/27/23 at 1:58 pm
Posted on 8/27/23 at 1:50 pm to Jon A thon
Just trying to figure out if it'd be worth it to buy another short-scale electric brand or acoustic even.
Posted on 8/27/23 at 2:04 pm to shutterspeed
I'd buy him a small Yamaha acoustic and call it a day.
Posted on 8/27/23 at 4:03 pm to shutterspeed
quote:
trying to figure out if it'd be worth it to buy another short-scale electric brand or acoustic even.
Thought the same thing. Not a ton of electric options honestly. I think Guitar Center has their cheap name brand and Epiphone has one. Probably very similar quality. We tried them all before purchasing this one and nothing stood out to make those seem better.
We looked at classical guitars at first, but I did shy away from a steel string acoustic knowing it's going to take some finger strength and he may not like it just starting out at such a young age. He was way more excited about the electric, and him being excited means higher chance of practicing. So went with this one.
Now that we have the Strat, I kind of want to experiment and make it work. Like I said, I have a guitar he can use. Was the plan to hand it down to him the whole time. Just not this early. He can make it work if he absolutely had to, so not going to buy a new guitar.
and to the question about scale length, it's apparently 22.75"
This post was edited on 8/27/23 at 4:05 pm
Posted on 8/27/23 at 4:21 pm to Jon A thon
You could always order a short scale electric if you wanted so that you're not limited to what's in stock at Guitar Center. A cursory glance at Amazon shows some Ibanezes and Fender Mustangs available.
Posted on 8/27/23 at 4:28 pm to Jon A thon
I have a Rickenbacker 325, the John Lennon short scale model. You need to have heavier strings for a short scale guitar, I use .012 to .052 on my Rickenbacker and they feel like slinkies. It absolutely might help with the tuning too.
Posted on 8/27/23 at 4:46 pm to shutterspeed
I didn't just shop at Guitar Center. Only shop there when they have something others don't have or if they have a sale. They happened to have a sale that the local shop didn't have at the time for this guitar. That mustang is the same guitar with a different body shape. I think we tried the Ibanez as well if I recall. This was ~5-6 months ago.
Posted on 8/27/23 at 5:49 pm to shutterspeed
quote:
You could always order a short scale electric if you wanted so that you're not limited to what's in stock at Guitar Center. A cursory glance at Amazon shows some Ibanezes and Fender Mustangs available.
Of all of the electric guitars that I own, the Les Paul Jr. seems the smallest, it has a 24.75 inch scale.
It's not just the scale length, I just traded off a Mustang with a 24" scale, but it didn't seem much different from a full size strat.
The relationship between bridge placement to body contours make a difference when you are holding the guitar. The LP jr. feels like everything is moved to your right, when you have it on your lap, and you don't have to reach much with your left hand.
I have a bad left shoulder, and when it's giving me trouble that's the guitar I play.
That was the reason I ordered the Mustang, shorter scale= less reaching.. it didn't work out that way though. It was really a great guitar otherwise.
Posted on 8/27/23 at 5:51 pm to Jon A thon
People bring me these things all the time and my first response is I can heal the sick, but I can't raise the dead.
I don't care what brand you pursue, what upgrades you employ ... a mini scale guitar WILL NOT stay in tune using typical strings or typical tunings. Because you cannot and will not defy the physics of the design. Plain and simple.
If you want physics to work on your side, string it with 10s and tune it UP two and a half steps, so that the low and high strings are tuned to A.
It will sound more like a mandolin than a guitar in many scenarios, yes, but then again, the instrument's blueprint is closer to a mandolin than a full-scale guitar.
If you have to get it in the key of E, do what I described above and get an affordable pitch transposing pedal, like a Morpheus Drop Tune or a Digitech The Drop or Whammy.
For what it's worth, I bought two of those 30 years ago so my young sons had guitars to meddle with instead of mine. I used to take one of the minis tuned up like I described for when my cover band did "Losing My Religion." It was in the key of Am. I could absolute NAIL the song's mandolin parts and the crowd loved it.
I don't care what brand you pursue, what upgrades you employ ... a mini scale guitar WILL NOT stay in tune using typical strings or typical tunings. Because you cannot and will not defy the physics of the design. Plain and simple.
If you want physics to work on your side, string it with 10s and tune it UP two and a half steps, so that the low and high strings are tuned to A.
It will sound more like a mandolin than a guitar in many scenarios, yes, but then again, the instrument's blueprint is closer to a mandolin than a full-scale guitar.
If you have to get it in the key of E, do what I described above and get an affordable pitch transposing pedal, like a Morpheus Drop Tune or a Digitech The Drop or Whammy.
For what it's worth, I bought two of those 30 years ago so my young sons had guitars to meddle with instead of mine. I used to take one of the minis tuned up like I described for when my cover band did "Losing My Religion." It was in the key of Am. I could absolute NAIL the song's mandolin parts and the crowd loved it.
Posted on 8/27/23 at 6:13 pm to TheFretShack
quote:
If you want physics to work on your side, string it with 10s and tune it UP two and a half steps, so that the low and high strings are tuned to A.
yep, A-D-G-C-E-A tuning. That's the way the Stewmac kit minis are and that works great. That mini strat that I built was really good. Perfect mix between a Mandolin and a guitar.
If he tunes this way, his teacher could just capo on the 5th fret.
I guess I need to go ahead and put this mini Telly kit together
This post was edited on 8/27/23 at 9:02 pm
Posted on 8/27/23 at 8:21 pm to TheFretShack
My Rickenbacker 325 has a two-inch shorter scale length than the Squier Mini Strat and it stays in perfect A440 but you have to use heavy gauge strings. But the thing is, the strings don’t FEEL that heavy tuned to pitch on the short scale. So I would try heavier strings first if I were the OP. I use Rotosound .012 to .052 and they feel like an .010 to .046 set on a standard scale, the only issue might be the wound third string.
Posted on 8/28/23 at 8:17 am to TheFretShack
quote:
s. Because you cannot and will not defy the physics of the design. Plain and simple.
I'm totally understanding that this is common, so definitely believe it. I just don't understand it completely.
The physics is that under a certain string length and tension, the string will vibrate at a given frequency and produce a sound. I get that intonation would be difficult because of shorter scale length requiring different fret distances over a smaller length which would then result in difficulties with accurate manufacturing etc.. What I don't understand is why the open string tune goes out so quickly. To me (admitted lack of experience and knowledge specific to guitar), it seems like that's tuner, nut, and bridge issues. So I can accept intonation will never be great. But my first gut reaction is there has to be something to get the open tuning at least somewhat more stable. Again, I believe you and am not ignoring the input. Just don't get it I guess.
Again he can use my PRS if this isn't fixable. I am not looking to dump a ton into this. It's kind of a project that I'm interested in fiddling with to gain more knowledge without ruining my PRS or Gibson. We got this guitar on sale and if I upgrade tuners and bridge/saddles and still be at around ~$200 to $250 all in on this guitar (can't remember what we paid, but it was well under $200).
Posted on 8/28/23 at 10:24 am to Jon A thon
Additional tuning stability tips.
* String the guitar properly. No less than two wraps, no more than four wraps on each tuner post. In the case of a Fender headstock, wind the strings neatly DOWN the post. To prevent slippage on unwound strings, employ a right-angle bend where the string exits the post holes.
* Stretch out the strings properly and completely. Hold the string in the nut and pull the string and rotate in a circular motion. Use common sense applying the torque - pull enough to stretch, not enough to break.
* ALWAYS detune and tune up to the note you seek. NEVER tune down to the note. The tuner's gears are designed to work this way. If you tune down to the note, they WILL slip a few cents, even with very high quality tuners. Tuning up is CRUCIAL to tuning stability.
* Lubricate the nut slots, they are the greatest friction point in the string path. I recommend lip balm.
Here's how much I recommend it ...
* String the guitar properly. No less than two wraps, no more than four wraps on each tuner post. In the case of a Fender headstock, wind the strings neatly DOWN the post. To prevent slippage on unwound strings, employ a right-angle bend where the string exits the post holes.
* Stretch out the strings properly and completely. Hold the string in the nut and pull the string and rotate in a circular motion. Use common sense applying the torque - pull enough to stretch, not enough to break.
* ALWAYS detune and tune up to the note you seek. NEVER tune down to the note. The tuner's gears are designed to work this way. If you tune down to the note, they WILL slip a few cents, even with very high quality tuners. Tuning up is CRUCIAL to tuning stability.
* Lubricate the nut slots, they are the greatest friction point in the string path. I recommend lip balm.
Here's how much I recommend it ...
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