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How did an early death….

Posted on 12/23/21 at 11:15 am
Posted by Globetrotter747
Member since Sep 2017
5890 posts
Posted on 12/23/21 at 11:15 am
… affect the legacies of various musicians? What musicians “benefited” (strictly in terms of their long term legacy, of course) from an early death and which probably would have enhanced their status with more time?

Examples don’t necessarily have to be really young. Elvis and John Lennon could be thrown in there. But mostly thinking of guys like Hendrix, Cobain, Morrison, etc.
Posted by auggie
Opelika, Alabama
Member since Aug 2013
31931 posts
Posted on 12/23/21 at 11:20 am to
When you die young, you avoid the inevitable artistic downhill slide that goes along with being rich and comfortable.

This mostly just goes for people who write their own songs though.
This post was edited on 12/23/21 at 12:19 pm
Posted by FightinTigersDammit
Louisiana North
Member since Mar 2006
46425 posts
Posted on 12/23/21 at 11:41 am to
Dying young can be a good career move, but only for your estate.
Posted by SEClint
New Orleans, LA/Portland, OR
Member since Nov 2006
49487 posts
Posted on 12/23/21 at 12:02 pm to
Dave Grohl certainly got more eyes on his work because of Kurt
Posted by Hoodie
Donaldsonville, LA
Member since Dec 2019
3839 posts
Posted on 12/23/21 at 12:27 pm to
Many have wondered where Metallica would be today had bassist Cliff Burton not have been killed in a bus accident in late 1986.

Some say he would have steered the band from it's more commercial sound in the 90s, while others argue that Burton would've welcomed the change. We'll never know.
Posted by Keep Stirring
Member since Sep 2016
2725 posts
Posted on 12/23/21 at 12:28 pm to
quote:

Dave Grohl certainly got more eyes on his work because of Kurt



Grohl was 23 or 24 when Kurt died, and had been in several established bands and had tons of connections, obviously not at the level they did without Kurt but I still think Foo would've been successful in the mid-90s alt rock period
Posted by SEClint
New Orleans, LA/Portland, OR
Member since Nov 2006
49487 posts
Posted on 12/23/21 at 12:35 pm to
quote:

but I still think Foo would've been successful in the mid-90s alt rock period

I dont

They sounded like every other band. What made them special was having the nirvana drummer make a push for success while already being in the spotlight. Dave is a talented person, but just like his other bands before nirvana..no one would have given too much of a shite.

People wanted to see Dave succeed after nirvana. Thats why mtv was still trying to capitalize, airing full live Foo concerts in 95 & 96 and pushing Dave.
Posted by Keep Stirring
Member since Sep 2016
2725 posts
Posted on 12/23/21 at 12:35 pm to
quote:

Many have wondered where Metallica would be today had bassist Cliff Burton not have been killed in a bus accident in late 1986.

Some say he would have steered the band from it's more commercial sound in the 90s, while others argue that Burton would've welcomed the change. We'll never know.




I think Metallica going "commercial" was inevitable with how most music was trending in the early 90s once Nirvana bursted open the alt rock bubble.. I think I read the Black Album, Nevermind, Ten & Use Your Illusions I & II all came out in a 45 day period
Posted by Keep Stirring
Member since Sep 2016
2725 posts
Posted on 12/23/21 at 12:38 pm to
quote:

I dont

They sounded like every other band. What made them special was having the nirvana drummer make a push for success while already being in the spotlight. Dave is a talented person, but just like his other bands before nirvana..no one would have given too much of a shite.

People wanted to see Dave succeed after nirvana. Thats why mtv was still trying to capitalize, airing full live Foo concerts in 95 & 96 and pushing Dave.



They wouldn't be headliners at major rock festivals and arenas, but I think they would've been at the same level as Gin Blossoms.. "Everlong" would've been a big hit with or without Kurt

Grohl had connections before he joined Nirvana, and in the early 90's anyone with remotely any talent got a record deal
This post was edited on 12/23/21 at 12:41 pm
Posted by SEClint
New Orleans, LA/Portland, OR
Member since Nov 2006
49487 posts
Posted on 12/23/21 at 12:47 pm to
quote:

and in the early 90's anyone with remotely any talent got a record deal


Everyone had talent then compared to now.



quote:

"Everlong" would've been a big hit with or without Kurt

Not if it didn't get the play. MTV made it a buzz clip. Which meant heavy rotation, and it was a good song.
quote:

They wouldn't be headliners at major rock festivals and arenas,

Kinda my point, Dave had connections. But once you get to shoot the shite with David Geffen, you're kinda set.
Posted by Keep Stirring
Member since Sep 2016
2725 posts
Posted on 12/23/21 at 12:58 pm to
quote:

Not if it didn't get the play. MTV made it a buzz clip. Which meant heavy rotation, and it was a good song.



"Big Me" was a buzz bin song, not "Everlong"... which was actually the second single of "Colour & the Shape" (the first was "Monkey Wrench").. although Hey Johnny Park may be my favorite song off that album.. I remember buying the cd the same day I saw the sequel to Jurassic Park

Again this isn't the MCU and not a multiverse and all a hypothetical conversation, but I think Grohl had the talent and connections that he would've been a success (ie more than a session musician) without Kurt
This post was edited on 12/23/21 at 1:01 pm
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
71173 posts
Posted on 12/23/21 at 1:15 pm to
quote:

his mostly just goes for people who write their own songs though.


You have your whole life to write your first album, then 6-12 months to write each album after that.

That’s why so many musicians tend to fade out by their third album. The first album is all of the best stuff they’ve written to date, the second album is what was left over that didn’t make the cut for the first one, and the third album is whatever they could come up with because they needed it in a year’s time.

Musicians tend to die young right before or after that 3rd album because the pressure to write and maintain success with all of the stakeholders involved while also performing and what not is immense. Many musicians turn to drugs to help them perform with sufficient energy night after night or use them to get in a creative state of mind to write in.

So, taking highly creative people, add in tons of drugs and alcohol, throw in a bunch of meddling a&r men and studio execs, some critics, some crazy gfs, sky-high expectations, and the pressure to produce music within a certain timeframe while performing nightly for months at a time living in a van, it’s enough to make a lot of folks crack.
This post was edited on 12/23/21 at 1:21 pm
Posted by SEClint
New Orleans, LA/Portland, OR
Member since Nov 2006
49487 posts
Posted on 12/23/21 at 1:37 pm to
quote:

You have your whole life to write your first album, then 6-12 months to write each album after that.


Write enough songs for a double album. Put your best on the 1st, but continue to work the others until they were good enough for that 1st. Then make your 2nd.

By the time your 3rd comes around, if it is urgent.. then you are probably successful. So you hire better musicians to work the 3rd album in the studio and cherry pick what you think will get over.
This post was edited on 12/23/21 at 1:39 pm
Posted by Keep Stirring
Member since Sep 2016
2725 posts
Posted on 12/23/21 at 1:37 pm to
quote:

You have your whole life to write your first album, then 6-12 months to write each album after that.

That’s why so many musicians tend to fade out by their third album. The first album is all of the best stuff they’ve written to date, the second album is what was left over that didn’t make the cut for the first one, and the third album is whatever they could come up with because they needed it in a year’s time.

Musicians tend to die young right before or after that 3rd album because the pressure to write and maintain success with all of the stakeholders involved while also performing and what not is immense. Many musicians turn to drugs to help them perform with sufficient energy night after night or use them to get in a creative state of mind to write in.

So, taking highly creative people, add in tons of drugs and alcohol, throw in a bunch of meddling a&r men and studio execs, some critics, some crazy gfs, sky-high expectations, and the pressure to produce music within a certain timeframe while performing nightly for months at a time living in a van, it’s enough to make a lot of folks crack.



HOW'D YOU GET A HOLD OF MY MANIFESTO???
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
71173 posts
Posted on 12/23/21 at 1:46 pm to
I think one thing that helps is that releases are much smaller now. People rarely put out 10-15 song albums any more. It’s usually just 1-5 songs at a time every 6-12 months. It’s kinda the same formula that tv has gone into: shorter seasons with higher quality per episode and less filler. This allows bands to stretch out the release of their best stuff. I’m finishing recording my 3rd release (first one was 5 songs, second was 8 songs, this one is 6), and I’m still pulling utilizing old material I started writing in hs.

Granted, I’m doing most everything myself and I have zero commercial success or expectations to speak of, so there’s no pressure
This post was edited on 12/23/21 at 1:47 pm
Posted by auggie
Opelika, Alabama
Member since Aug 2013
31931 posts
Posted on 12/23/21 at 1:46 pm to
One thing a lot of writers don't do, that they absolutely should, is go back and look at your old stuff, and rewrite/rework it.

Sometimes, you can mash 2 different songs together too. Some of your earliest ideas can be your best, and most relatable to others.
This post was edited on 12/23/21 at 1:56 pm
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
71173 posts
Posted on 12/23/21 at 2:03 pm to
I do this constantly. I have one song that I came up with the main melody in probably 2010, wrote most of the lyrics in 2013, added a bridge in 2016, reworked the bridge and last verse slightly in 2018, and finally recorded in 2021. It’s okay for songs to evolve as you do.
Posted by andwesway
Zachary, LA
Member since Jun 2016
3772 posts
Posted on 12/23/21 at 2:21 pm to
My God, half a million people actually purchased this song.
Posted by auggie
Opelika, Alabama
Member since Aug 2013
31931 posts
Posted on 12/23/21 at 2:22 pm to
that's a good tune man.
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
71173 posts
Posted on 12/23/21 at 2:48 pm to
quote:

that's a good tune man.


Thanks! I’m hoping to release it everywhere on a 6 song EP just in time for baseball season
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