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re: Alice in Chains Dirt may be the greatest album of the 90s.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 2:52 pm to Big Scrub TX
Posted on 12/21/15 at 2:52 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
Also, Dr. Feelgood was released in 1989. That's pretty close to the end, but we all certainly agree that is a classic album.
Good songs are good songs. Good bands are good bands. Motley Crue - if nothing else, musically they were pretty tight 3 piece behind a decent singer. Nikki was good enough on bass, but Tommy and Mick are some examples of what I was talking about before - ignoring the clownish persona Tommy has cultivated in 35 years, he can flat out play. Mick is underrated. The songs stand out because of that. (And Nikki was a great, modern example of the non-front, front man - like Brian Wilson - another guy who is awfully smart to be in a rock band.)
1
Posted on 12/21/15 at 2:57 pm to Big Scrub TX
I love Slave to the Grind too. I think that album, along with Apetite for Destruction, are the bridge between hair metal (Crue, Poison, etc) and "real" metal (Metallica, Megadeth, etc). GNR and Skid Row both toed that line between genres. I think Crue was on the heavier end of hair metal, but still hair metal. I wouldn't put them in the same category as Metallica, for instance.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 2:58 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
but Tommy and Mick are some examples of what I was talking about before
You're saying this like it's some revelation, but the main reason I've always gravitated towards metal is the quality of the musicianship. I can't think of many bands that made it big that didn't have a bunch of instrumental badasses. I mean, when you think about it, there was an outright war for guitar talent. Whitesnake always wanted to hire whoever the best was. I don't even wanna get into how great David Lee Roth's backing bands were. (and he almost had Jason Becker too.)
Posted on 12/21/15 at 3:02 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
You're saying this like it's some revelation,
No - but just a reminder for the kids who were too young or those who are taking the contrarian position. As I indicated, Hair Metal collapsed on itself. But it was more image and excess than lack of musical ability. I remind my kids, "They didn't have ProTools or autotune to fix everything back then. They had to be able to do that, generally, for real, up until the mid-to-late 90s. Now, if an 'artist' looks right, they just buy some songs and play make believe in the studio."
Posted on 12/21/15 at 3:12 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
No - but just a reminder for the kids who were too young or those who are taking the contrarian position. As I indicated, Hair Metal collapsed on itself. But it was more image and excess than lack of musical ability. I remind my kids, "They didn't have ProTools or autotune to fix everything back then. They had to be able to do that, generally, for real, up until the mid-to-late 90s. Now, if an 'artist' looks right, they just buy some songs and play make believe in the studio."
One of my most controversial "loves" is White Lion. That is unabashed hair metal. But many of the songs are great. And they had Vito Bratta. Vito. He's been in virtual seclusion for almost 25 years, yet you still hear him spoken of in hushed tones by all the other bands.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 3:29 pm to Baloo
quote:
There is an awesome bootleg if you can find it of Facelift as entirely hair metal. It's the AiC demo for the major labels, and it's just horrifying.
I have that plus another early recording. The production is absolutely horrible, but it's still AIC. Nothing about it musically or lyrically has shite to do with Poison, Whitesnake, Great White, or any of the other crap that passed for hair metal. They definitely did not have the polish that they had by the time Facelift came about but you can hear they were pretty close by that point. It sounds no worse than most other demos of the era, and better than Megadeth's first album did even though it was a proper release.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 3:31 pm to PiscesTiger
quote:
Songs like "Love Hate Love" and "Die Young" have a bit of 80's glam rock to them,
Glam or hair metal never had the gravitas that dripped from those songs. The lyrical content Staley was putting out was as far from hair metal as one could get.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 3:37 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
In that heavy metal is built around 4/4 time, similar chord progressions, tuned down, distorted guitars,
Most hair metal didn't use tuned down guitars. It was more pop than metal.
And I'm not talking about Motley Crue. They weren't a hair metal band musically, and even though they probably inspired the genre they were constantly changing their look and had a much more down and dirty image and reputationthan Poison or Great White, and their 'look' had totally changed by the time Whitesnake was riding their coat tails. Their only real hair metal period was 'Theater Of Pain', which by anyone's reckoning is by far their weakest album.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 3:41 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
And here's a question: where do you include someone like "Metal Church"
Small world. I was just listening to 'The Dark' album the other day. Honestly, I don't see the need to try and classify everything into a sub-genre of metal. I bought the album back in 86 when it first came out, and to all of us that liked it so much it was just good old heavy metal. It sure wasn't hair metal in any regard I can imagine.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 3:43 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
I always heard his response was to use lighter string gauges. I always thought BS were tuned down so it would sound darker.
You are correct. Iommi plays spider webs because of his fingers. He tuned down for the effect.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 3:47 pm to Sayre
The guitarist for Metal Church toured with Metallica when Hetfield burned his arm off. I don't think they would have picked some hair metal guy.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 4:22 pm to Brosef Stalin
quote:
The guitarist for Metal Church toured with Metallica when Hetfield burned his arm off. I don't think they would have picked some hair metal guy.
Meh. James Lomenzo from White Lion has been in Pride and Glory, Black Label Society and Megadeth.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 4:22 pm to Sayre
quote:
Small world. I was just listening to 'The Dark' album the other day. Honestly, I don't see the need to try and classify everything into a sub-genre of metal. I bought the album back in 86 when it first came out, and to all of us that liked it so much it was just good old heavy metal. It sure wasn't hair metal in any regard I can imagine.
I'm partial to Blessing in Disguise.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 4:24 pm to Ace Midnight
One band we haven't mentioned that is rearlly hard to pigeonhole into a category is Corrosion of Conformity. (I'm only talking about after Pepper took over the singing, starting with Deliverance in 1994).
Those 2 albums are almost like the perfect melding of the 80's and the 90's. And that shite is tuned WAY down.
Those 2 albums are almost like the perfect melding of the 80's and the 90's. And that shite is tuned WAY down.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 5:04 pm to Sayre
quote:
am or hair metal never had the gravitas that dripped from those songs. The lyrical content Staley was putting out was as far from hair metal as one could get.
Guitar-speaking, I heard a ton of Shark Island-type stuff in the music. Layne's stage and lyrical persona is what separates them completely.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 5:10 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
, Hair Metal collapsed on itself. But it was more image and excess than lack of musical ability
I agree with these sentiments as well. Some "hair metal" bands had some great musicians -- Cinderella and Shark Island being two. Then, there were some who just sounded like 20 other bands they'd copied ala Autograph (Who used their connect with Van Halen to get a record deal) and Britny Foxx (got their record deal due to their coattails with Cinderella).
The look was all one needed to be categorized.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 5:13 pm to PiscesTiger
quote:
Cinderella and Shark Island being two.
I consider myself an afficianado and I've never heard of Shark Island before just now.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 5:17 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
I've never heard of Shark Island before just now.
That's weird that you do not. They were big on the sunset scene. Axl Rose might have stolen the greatest microphone stand dance move of all time.
LINK
Posted on 12/21/15 at 5:24 pm to PiscesTiger
Wow. Says that video is from 1989. I don't think they got ANY play on MTV at that time. I am truly surprised that I haven't heard of them. The singer's voice actually sounds like Joe L'este from Bang Tango.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 7:01 pm to Big Scrub TX
The only time I can recall seeing that video on MTV was on Rachtman's Head Banger's Ball in about the winter of '90. But after the internet arrived and file sharing happened, I started to research them and listen to them more and they clearly were one of the bands that didn't get the accolades they might have possibly gotten.
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