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Posted on 2/12/14 at 12:16 am to Jazzbass13
Spiderman
Batman
Superman
Everybody else.
I had all kinds of Spiderman toys when I was a kid.
Batman
Superman
Everybody else.
I had all kinds of Spiderman toys when I was a kid.
Posted on 2/12/14 at 12:30 am to Jazzbass13
The Flash
Batman
Deadpool
The Punisher
Psylocke
X-23
Wolverine
Domino
Wonder Woman (the New 52 version)
A lot of the comics I read aren't superheroes. They are more of the gritty anti-hero types, the broken characters who have no problems killing.
Batman
Deadpool
The Punisher
Psylocke
X-23
Wolverine
Domino
Wonder Woman (the New 52 version)
A lot of the comics I read aren't superheroes. They are more of the gritty anti-hero types, the broken characters who have no problems killing.
This post was edited on 2/12/14 at 12:32 am
Posted on 2/12/14 at 12:53 am to Scruffy
quote:
A lot of the comics I read aren't superheroes.
Did Scruffy just not refer to himself in the third person?
Posted on 2/12/14 at 1:09 am to Jazzbass13
quote:
Batman ftw
Posted on 2/12/14 at 4:07 am to Jazzbass13
#1
#2
#2
Posted on 2/12/14 at 6:04 am to Jazzbass13
No love for Swamp Thing
Posted on 2/12/14 at 6:46 am to Jazzbass13
Captain America
Wolverine
Spiderman
Wolverine
Spiderman
Posted on 2/12/14 at 6:47 am to Sentrius
quote:
He also has issues with himself being the sole survivor of an entire civilization and he's the last Kryptonian left and that affects him deeply. He feels like an alien on this world and yet he still fights for humanity unconditionally because he he also considers himself as human as anybody else. Human beings are his people as much as Kryptonians are.
The age old debate which cannot and never will be solved
This post was edited on 2/12/14 at 6:49 am
Posted on 2/12/14 at 7:52 am to Jazzbass13
Darkseid
Thanos
Electro
Shocker
(Get my fav characters out of the way)
Spiderman
Swamp thing
Banner/Hulk
Superman
Ghost Rider
Batman
Magneto
The Spectre
He does find more life from his planet. Or...it finds him I guess.
Thanos
Electro
Shocker
(Get my fav characters out of the way)
Spiderman
Swamp thing
Banner/Hulk
Superman
Ghost Rider
Batman
Magneto
The Spectre
quote:
He also has issues with himself being the sole survivor of an entire civilization and he's the last Kryptonian left and that affects him deeply. He feels like an alien on this world and yet he still fights for humanity unconditionally because he he also considers himself as human as anybody else. Human beings are his people as much as Kryptonians are.
He does find more life from his planet. Or...it finds him I guess.
This post was edited on 2/12/14 at 8:00 am
Posted on 2/12/14 at 8:08 am to Libertyabides71
quote:
No character flaws and his one weakness is a well known and over used plot device.
I heavily disagree. I just think that Superman hasn't been all that effectively brought to the big screen yet, and despite my issues with the film, Man of Steel got the closest to how Superman's personality is in the comics in this day and age.
As for my Top 10:
1) Batman
2) Superman
3) Iron Man
4) The Flash
5) Spider-Man
6) The Hulk
7) Nightwing
8) Green Arrow
9) Hellboy
10) Green Lantern (John Stewart)
Posted on 2/12/14 at 8:18 am to OMLandshark
I agree to that, hell as far as the other live media goes I'd even put smallville at #2 behind man of steel.
Posted on 2/12/14 at 9:00 am to Sentrius
quote:
Like him or not, he transcends every comic book character out there and indisputably the most famous. He's an extraordinarily huge pop culture and cultural icon. You don't see famous athletes out there doing the Batman or Spiderman, no, they do the Superman gesture when they hit a home run, 3 pointer or touchdown. Without Superman, there would be no Batman, Wonder Woman, Spider Man or the X-Men. He's the one that truly started it all for the genre of comic books and his first movie in 1978 is the one that started it all for the genre of comic book films in Hollywood.
Most of that is basically true. Of course he's the first widely known comic book character, and he did get the first major film, etc. This makes him the greatest pop culture icon, for sure.
quote:
He's one of the best ideas to ever come about in the last 100 years
Better than the internet right?
But let's just remember the quote about Thor 2 making almost as much as Superman in the box office, that of course does not mean Superman is as popular as Thor, just that his pop cultural importance has waned. If all that's left is sports icon making superman arms, that's a bad place or Superman to be. (Superman also suffers because his pop cultural stature and his comic book stature are misaligned now. No one on the street is going to recognize the immigrant undertones of Superman. They'd be more apt to go for the Jesus Christ representation. This whole entire "restraint of power," is also missed. Maybe he would resonate better if those were connected more fully, but as long as he's relegated to just the idea of being better than everyone, they won't.)
quote:
and basically a reminder of what humanity aspires to be but can't quite get over the hump so we have this character to remind us of that. Superman also isn't a disguise unlike what Batman is. He doesn't hide himself but rather he's very upfront about what he does serving Earth. He recognized with great power comes great responsibility long before Spider Man ever did. He has all that power and he uses it with the utmost restraint possible. Could you imagine Batman with that power? He also has issues with himself being the sole survivor of an entire civilization and he's the last Kryptonian left and that affects him deeply. He feels like an alien on this world and yet he still fights for humanity unconditionally because he he also considers himself as human as anybody else. Human beings are his people as much as Kryptonians are.
quote:
His background is alien yes, but that's what makes him the ultimate immigrant story which is americana and basically apple pie right there. This country was built on immigrants. Superman was created by people who came from immigrant families. particularly jewish immigrants.
Like I just said, Superman considers himself as human as he considers himself as alien.
While I agree in respect, when it comes to the greats-- Superman, Captain America, Batman, Spider-Man, (rough list - there's always Hulk, Wolverine, Wonder Woman, Flash, GL, etc.)-- I think there's a small enough list to really look at why they are important, where their "superheroism" comes from, and why they do what they do. And that's where I think Captain America separates himself.
The two things that are played up for Superman, his immigrant/alien status and his level of power, aren't really strong points on that argument. For Superman, being a superhero is easy. And I think that's where everyone has their problem. It's hard for him to ACTUALLY be super. There's no risk with Superman, as much as writer's want there to be, there's just "doing." Which makes "doing right," the easier choice. There is little to lose.
The internal battle for Superman is having caring for a people he considers himself a part of and knowing he is not. Right?
quote:
He feels like an alien on this world and yet he still fights for humanity unconditionally because he he also considers himself as human as anybody else. Human beings are his people as much as Kryptonians are.
So being a superhero for Superman is about being included, about belonging. It's a popularity thing....right? (And I realize this is terribly reductive, but I think all of the anti-Superman sentiment in the thread is indicative of that.) That isn't exactly a great story.
quote:
what humanity aspires to be but can't quite get over the hump
So humanity can't get over the hump of being good?
Because....
quote:
He has all that power and he uses it with the utmost restraint possible.
Is limiting oneself s"superhero"-like? And this is the problem. I think it worked in a different time, that's why he was so popular, but it doesn't work now. That is the base question of Superman's character, and another problem.
The Superman writers have themselves in a corner, I mean, why doesn't Superman fly all over just grab the villains and kill them. Sure there might be only Doomsday left, since he can't kill him, but that's better than dealing with hundreds of villains. So Superman stories have to be about restraint, and not necessarily doing the most logical thing possible in any situation. So the humility and restraint, is manufactured, and the narrative suffers for it.
A lot of people have talked about Batman, but where does his heroism come from...A place of controlled revenge, darkness, inner turmoil. That IS what makes him super, He's also a man unfiltered, un-super, so that's a big part of why everyone likes him. Batman is a great superhero no doubt, (and so is Superman), but his morals are often murky, his methods are questionable. He's also an a-hole
But anyways, I don't see a large debate on Batman. We can talk about him if so. Continued...
This post was edited on 2/12/14 at 9:45 am
Posted on 2/12/14 at 9:00 am to Freauxzen
So let's go back to this statement:
In light of everything I said, let's then go to this:
And this is where I think Captain America, an even more faithful symbol of the do-gooder boy scout...punching Hitler in the face. But Captain America doesn't do it to be included. He doesn't do it for revenge. He doesn't do it because he's "the only one who can." He does it because it's the right thing to do. And I think that story is reflected throughout time. People like Batman because doing the right thing is hard for him, there is a massive grey area for the world. Every decision is agonizing. Superman and Captain America are often painted as boy scouts. Superman is about restraint, while Cap is about action, that's why the first cover is a punch in the face. And as "barbaric" as that might seem to those who like Superman, if more people just took action to do the right thing, maybe that's the example to follow. Maybe that's why Superman's belief in humanity is so flawed.
And just like Superman, Cap is out of place, and rather than the immigrant story, Cap's story represents the battle between tradition and progression. Between right and wrong. Between what we know and what we are discovering. To me, that's the more important question.
When we find evil, we should fight it. I think the intricacy of Cap also gets lost in the shuffle, though. Knowing the right thing to do is easy. Believing in the right thing enough to embody it, that's almost impossible. And that's called conviction.
And that's why you have this:
And not everyone can do it.
In the case of Hitler, punching him and taking him out was easy. Black and White. Doing good was clear. In other cases, like Marvel's Civil War, it was much more complicated. Where Superman's willpower comes from restraint, Captain America's willpower comes from virtue and duty.
LINK
And Cap would do anything to fight for what he believes is right. Even if he is alone. Superman does it not to be alone, Captain America does it because he believes in it. Even if it's unwinnable odds against a Supergod. Captain America will always stand for what he believes in. And that's superheroic.
Superman is awesome no doubt, just putting up an argument for Captain America as well.
quote:
Many people confuse Superman for some musclebound stooge who flies around punching and lifting things.
In light of everything I said, let's then go to this:
And this is where I think Captain America, an even more faithful symbol of the do-gooder boy scout...punching Hitler in the face. But Captain America doesn't do it to be included. He doesn't do it for revenge. He doesn't do it because he's "the only one who can." He does it because it's the right thing to do. And I think that story is reflected throughout time. People like Batman because doing the right thing is hard for him, there is a massive grey area for the world. Every decision is agonizing. Superman and Captain America are often painted as boy scouts. Superman is about restraint, while Cap is about action, that's why the first cover is a punch in the face. And as "barbaric" as that might seem to those who like Superman, if more people just took action to do the right thing, maybe that's the example to follow. Maybe that's why Superman's belief in humanity is so flawed. And just like Superman, Cap is out of place, and rather than the immigrant story, Cap's story represents the battle between tradition and progression. Between right and wrong. Between what we know and what we are discovering. To me, that's the more important question.
When we find evil, we should fight it. I think the intricacy of Cap also gets lost in the shuffle, though. Knowing the right thing to do is easy. Believing in the right thing enough to embody it, that's almost impossible. And that's called conviction.
And that's why you have this:
And not everyone can do it.
In the case of Hitler, punching him and taking him out was easy. Black and White. Doing good was clear. In other cases, like Marvel's Civil War, it was much more complicated. Where Superman's willpower comes from restraint, Captain America's willpower comes from virtue and duty.
LINK
quote:
What's more, it's not really accurate to say that Cap's ethics are black-and-white with no shades of grey; like anybody, he struggles with moral decisions, as is often shown in the comics. Ethics is never a matter of mechanistically applying simple rules to life: judgment is always necessary to find the rules that fit any given situation and to know how to apply them (especially when two or more rules conflict). What gives his ethics the appearance of being cut-and-dried is his conviction: once Cap decides on the right course of action, he does not waver from it. Moral conviction should be not be confused with moral stubbornness; Cap will change his mind if you convince him he's wrong, but until then, he will do what he feels is right. As I explain in Kantian Ethics and Economics: Autonomy, Dignity, and Character, judgment must be coupled with will; determining the right thing to do is meaningless unless you also have the conviction to go through with it, which Captain America exemplifies.
The idea that Captain America's moral compass is pointed to the past rather than the present or future is simply mistaken. Steve Rogers may indeed be a "man out of time," but his morals—and his conviction—are timeless.
And Cap would do anything to fight for what he believes is right. Even if he is alone. Superman does it not to be alone, Captain America does it because he believes in it. Even if it's unwinnable odds against a Supergod. Captain America will always stand for what he believes in. And that's superheroic.
quote:
Sentrius
Superman is awesome no doubt, just putting up an argument for Captain America as well.
This post was edited on 2/12/14 at 9:37 am
Posted on 2/12/14 at 9:11 am to Freauxzen
quote:
Soon there will be war. Millions will burn. Millions will perish in sickness and misery. Why does one death matter against so many? Because there is good and there is evil, and evil must be punished. Even in the face of Armageddon I shall not compromise in this
~Rorschach
This post was edited on 2/12/14 at 9:12 am
Posted on 2/12/14 at 9:25 am to Jazzbass13
Batman
Magneto
Wolverine
Hulk
Cable
Iron Man
Captain America
Punisher
Hellboy
Rorschach
Magneto
Wolverine
Hulk
Cable
Iron Man
Captain America
Punisher
Hellboy
Rorschach
Posted on 2/12/14 at 9:25 am to Brosef Stalin
quote:
Goku is a goofy dumbass when he's not fighting.
He's pure of heart, and how his character is written is to show that he has the innocence of a child.
Posted on 2/12/14 at 9:26 am to Freauxzen
Captain America, to me..was the type of guy who would jump in front of a bullet for a stranger. Superpowered or not, he always struck me as a guy who would sacrifice himself not to save a world, but just to save 1 if he had to and not even question it.
Some of the first books ever given to me were of him and US Agent.
Some of the first books ever given to me were of him and US Agent.
Posted on 2/12/14 at 9:28 am to Jazzbass13
Comics - I always liked Daredevil the best.
Movies - Iron Man translates the best to film followed by Batman. Superman is the worst superhero for movies due to him just being too much of a juggernaut.
Movies - Iron Man translates the best to film followed by Batman. Superman is the worst superhero for movies due to him just being too much of a juggernaut.
Posted on 2/12/14 at 9:32 am to Freauxzen
Superman
Flash (Barry Allen)
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)
Batman
Captain America
Spiderman
Green Arrow
Thor
Aquaman
Capt. Marvel/Shazaam
Flash (Barry Allen)
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)
Batman
Captain America
Spiderman
Green Arrow
Thor
Aquaman
Capt. Marvel/Shazaam
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