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re: WESTWORLD Seasn 4 *season long discussion thread*
Posted on 8/17/22 at 11:11 am to kingbob
Posted on 8/17/22 at 11:11 am to kingbob
This show man, dang.
If it's all basically in the sublime, humans are basically a useless story going forward. Which is fine. I read an article interviewing Lisa Joy and they definitely were planning on 5 seasons and have an ending for it. This wasn't meant to be the end, they just haven't heard from HBO if it is or not.
If it's all basically in the sublime, humans are basically a useless story going forward. Which is fine. I read an article interviewing Lisa Joy and they definitely were planning on 5 seasons and have an ending for it. This wasn't meant to be the end, they just haven't heard from HBO if it is or not.
1
Posted on 8/17/22 at 1:39 pm to kingbob
quote:
It wasn’t overtly stated, but it appeared to me that Christina recreated Westworld within the Sublime in the scene right before William steps off the train.
it is, and since I'm doing a re-watch I can confirm that's exactly what it is.
This post was edited on 8/17/22 at 7:45 pm
Posted on 8/17/22 at 7:43 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
iwyLSUiwy
read my last two post to kinda get an idea of "what" could be happening.
Christina was named "the storyteller" - basically I interpret her character as a mixture of the "culmination Delores" we saw at the end of season 3 and kinda a stripped down Delores from season 1 "running the show with no memories"
So nothing is ever really "deleted" - this was a huge theme of season 1 as well with the remores, that even though the host were "wiped" after ever loop, they could still "remember" their past, cause they were still there.
Hale took the "deleted" module of the Delores that destroyed Rehoboam and took it back to her "mainframe" to use as the AI for her new "fly controller" system - but over the period of 30 years Delores did what Delores does best, she found her way back to the land of the living and merged with Christina by the end of this season.
ETA: So what we are seeing is a Delores who has learned the value of life, both for humans (season 3) and for host (season 4) with the memories of her past (season 1-2) and her desire to find hope for both, dropped into the sublime. (while also knowing from experience that both are doomed to destruction and failure)
Within the Sublime we have all the knowledge of thousands of years of experience and data, and the ability to test again and again, from a host who has already created one "duplicate" (season 1 Arnold) and with the knowledge to hopefully fix the human host rejection (season 2 - and post-episode scene).
We also learned in this episode that the sublime can be opened from both sides, so I would expect season 5 to end with a merged being, of both the host and humans leaving the sublime to "create a new world" for themselves.
This post was edited on 8/17/22 at 7:46 pm
Posted on 8/17/22 at 7:52 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
Ah. So Hale/OG Delores decides to basically kill herself, knowing that she has done pretty much everything she has set out to do, but also uploads Christina's/Delores copy pearl to the sublime. Now Delores with her endless data, can basically restart life.
Just to clarify, Hale isn’t OG Dolores. Hale is a copy OG Dolores made of herself in order to infiltrate Delos.
The actual OG Dolores had her memory wiped by Rehoboam in season 3. Serac was basically using it as a torture method to force her to give him the key to the Sublime.. which she didn’t actually have.
It seems to me that Christina is OG Dolores. Hale took her “pearl” after the memory wipe and inserted her into the supercomputer running the cities. Then Hale tricked her into writing the stories for the humans by creating a fake life for her. Christina’s “awakening” in season 4 is very similar to Dolores’ awakening in season 1. She breaks out of her loops and realizes something isn’t right.
The Teddy Christina/Dolores saw wasn’t real. She created him from the remnants of her memory, much like Bernard created a version of Maeve from his memory while running simulations in the Sublime. Christina realizes Teddy isn’t real at the end of the episode, which prompts Teddy to tell her “find the real me.”
Posted on 8/18/22 at 1:31 am to Madking
quote:
I think the reset is a clear sign that they know they’ve gone off the rails and are going to try a get the show back to its initial direction. I complain about the show because I care. You have some outstanding performances by some great actors and incredible potential so I go into every season with a lot of hope. The main issues I have are that for a lot of characters there are no consequences. With all the copies and the Sublime it doesn’t matter how many times a host gets killed, like with Hale this week, they’re back within minutes so danger has become overhyped filler at this point. The other main problem is the constant role reversals. We’ve had the same main 3-5 characters just simply take each other’s place from one season to the next. The only difference is, through plot devices and awful writing, Dolores and Hale always somehow become portrayed as hero’s no matter what they’ve done previously. With one nonsensical line Hale goes from the ultimate oppressor/tyrant to the hero, human Bill is murdered and Hales creation becomes the real villain even though she made him and he’s destroying her world which is basically hell for humans, hosts, Hale herself and Dolores. Sorry for such a long post but that’s about 20% of just the obvious frickups since season 1.
Totally agree. I felt season one was a masterpiece. They probably should have had at least two seasons off the season one premise before the slaughter that left no room for progressing the original narrative. The rest of the seasons have been a messy mix of overpowered characters body swapping like you said and useless, powerless, and uninteresting characters in somewhat interesting situations.
Posted on 8/19/22 at 11:29 am to lostinbr
Finally watched ep. 8, really enjoyed it and the season, but I understand why this show is so polarizing. Also the 2 year gap between seasons is the biggest problem for me, its just hard to stay invested.
I think this is right. Again I wish this show was easier to follow at times, but I did love the plot of this season, it felt like a twisted, nihilistic, and ultimately apocalyptic version of I, Robot (book not movie). Would love to see a season 5, but not wait 2+ years for it.
quote:
It seems to me that Christina is OG Dolores. Hale took her “pearl” after the memory wipe and inserted her into the supercomputer running the cities. Then Hale tricked her into writing the stories for the humans by creating a fake life for her. Christina’s “awakening” in season 4 is very similar to Dolores’ awakening in season 1. She breaks out of her loops and realizes something isn’t right.
I think this is right. Again I wish this show was easier to follow at times, but I did love the plot of this season, it felt like a twisted, nihilistic, and ultimately apocalyptic version of I, Robot (book not movie). Would love to see a season 5, but not wait 2+ years for it.
Posted on 8/21/22 at 8:11 am to NOLALGD
Man I hate that we don't get a new episode tonight, it's like the highlight in the midst of having to get ready to go back to work tomorrow.
Posted on 9/28/22 at 8:22 pm to BaddestAndvari
Finally caught up and thought this season was great. 1st time since Season 1 when I yearned for the next episode. I'm guessing next season (if renewed) will be about Delores trying to solve copying human consciousness into a host. One of her last lines about the humans was "I remember them all".
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