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re: Watched the documentary Somm last night

Posted on 2/4/16 at 3:44 pm to
Posted by CocomoLSU
Inside your dome.
Member since Feb 2004
155588 posts
Posted on 2/4/16 at 3:44 pm to
Pretty much.
Posted by WG_Dawg
Member since Jun 2004
89681 posts
Posted on 2/4/16 at 3:57 pm to
quote:

SlowFlowPro


Good stuff. I only skimmed but do you think the type of people in teh documentary (Master Sommeliers around the world) fall into that "junk science" area too, or does that apply to the common man who claims to be an expert, or like the somm at your local nice restaurant that's down the street?
Posted by TexasTiger39
Member since Mar 2009
3671 posts
Posted on 2/4/16 at 3:59 pm to
(no message)
This post was edited on 8/8/20 at 10:35 am
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
467780 posts
Posted on 2/4/16 at 4:35 pm to
Haven't seen the doc but Brocher used experts. I think master wine students and maybe sommoliers. It is theoretically possible that somebody is that naturally skilled but those persons would have to be super rare
Posted by Big Scrub TX
Member since Dec 2013
38522 posts
Posted on 2/4/16 at 4:49 pm to
quote:

This documentary showed me how much of it is a learned skill.


The primary skill in selling wine is creating a "story" - so and so hill is only in the sun for so and so hours per day and this vintage is the year the so and so army attacked so and so etc. etc. Human consumers are suckers for a good story.

Very few humans actually have the "master taster" ability - in anything (wine, food, etc.) Virtually all of the rest is bullshite. The consumers themselves are full of shite almost always. The entire concept of a sommelier recommending appropriate wines to normal diners at normal restaurants is a fraud in and of itself. The entire practice of letting someone at the table sample the wine to see if it's "acceptable" is nothing but window-dressing dramatics.

Wine is nothing more than a socially acceptable way for relatively affluent people to get drunk in public.

Even the people who say "I know what I like, I don't care about the price" are full of shite, as they would be unlikely to pick the "one that they like" out of a blind lineup 5 minutes after they declared their like of it.
Posted by WG_Dawg
Member since Jun 2004
89681 posts
Posted on 2/4/16 at 4:55 pm to
quote:

I think master wine students and maybe sommoliers.


Ok, yeah the people in the doc aren't anywhere near student level.

I was curious when you mentioned the junk science if it applied to the entire field as a whole or just the majority of it.
Posted by Big Scrub TX
Member since Dec 2013
38522 posts
Posted on 2/4/16 at 5:00 pm to
quote:

I was curious when you mentioned the junk science if it applied to the entire field as a whole or just the majority of it.


The entire field. I mean, it's obviously possible to understand grape varietals, geographies, process of manufacture, etc. The junk science is in pretending as if human palettes are somehow highly discerning amidst all of this mumbo jumbo.

There are real-world experiences in which humans have judged white wine to be red wine merely because it had food coloring added to it.
Posted by WG_Dawg
Member since Jun 2004
89681 posts
Posted on 2/4/16 at 5:03 pm to
quote:

There are real-world experiences in which humans have judged white wine to be red wine merely because it had food coloring added to it.


I get that, but just playing devils advocate here I HIGHLY doubt one of the hundred or so MSs out there would fall for this.

I mean I myself can probably BARELY discern the difference in brands of light beer but I imagine a profession brewer can tell the difference quite well.
Posted by Big Scrub TX
Member since Dec 2013
38522 posts
Posted on 2/4/16 at 5:07 pm to
quote:


I get that, but just playing devils advocate here I HIGHLY doubt one of the hundred or so MSs out there would fall for this.


I agree. I would believe that most MSs would not fall for that - although if a relatively high % of them did, it would not surprise me in the least.

quote:


I mean I myself can probably BARELY discern the difference in brands of light beer


No you can't.
Posted by WG_Dawg
Member since Jun 2004
89681 posts
Posted on 2/4/16 at 5:17 pm to
quote:

No you can't.


are you telling me I can't tell the difference in a bud light and miller lite?
Posted by athenslife101
Member since Feb 2013
20260 posts
Posted on 2/4/16 at 5:21 pm to
I have no doubt they are great. But having to pass a tough test for a job is nothing new.
Posted by Big Scrub TX
Member since Dec 2013
38522 posts
Posted on 2/4/16 at 5:45 pm to
quote:

are you telling me I can't tell the difference in a bud light and miller lite?


I'm telling you you would likely not do better than random at the triangle test, yes.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
467780 posts
Posted on 2/4/16 at 6:11 pm to
quote:

Ok, yeah the people in the doc aren't anywhere near student level.

but that was an extreme test (dyed white wine)

the main study in the first article i posted involved experts, including sommoliers

there are also studies about the words used and how they vary from person to person and create a randomized data set
Posted by KarlMalonesFlipPhone
Member since Sep 2015
3848 posts
Posted on 2/5/16 at 8:27 pm to
Just watched, and regardless of whether or not you believe the whole field is bs or not, I definitely think it's worth a viewing.

Spolier























I'm so glad that bitch arse Ian didn't pass the first time.
This post was edited on 2/5/16 at 8:28 pm
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