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re: The most concise piece on the inexplicable choices made in "The Long Night"
Posted on 4/30/19 at 12:01 am to Jack Ruby
Posted on 4/30/19 at 12:01 am to Jack Ruby
There are some legit criticisms of Season 8 Episode 3, but this article is 10x more poorly thought out than anything that went wrong with the episode. He contradicts himself on every other line...
Was it too predictable? Or would any of the thousands of fan theories actually predicted have been better? Was there zero payoff or conclusions from the episode? Or did they conclude what was supposed to be the point of the whole series too soon in it?
He seems to have transported into GRRM and knows his intentions on how the show will end/the main points of the series. I guess that is better than spending several days at GRRM's house having him explain his planned ending of the story to you. Then GRRM (knowing fully how the show will end) saying that the show is "extremely faithful" to the books and that the show ending will not be that different than the ending he plans to write for the books on the major plot points (I would assume how the Others are defeated is a major plot point). LINK
Most absurd of all are his suggestions on how the episode could have went:
On the first theory (and ignoring his butchering of the shows facts/timelines)...We don't know if Targaryens can survive dragon fire in the show (they cannot in the books). Second, Jon does not know about Targaryens surviving fire. Third, why would Jon commit suicide by walking into fire, when for all they know dragon fire has a good shot at working. I can't imagine the internet complaints about such an objectively dumb move.
On the second option, he literally suggests that Arya does the Night King's job and kill Bran to take his face. Ignoring that fact, people would have hated that conclusion because it would have been like the 10th time she uses the faceless magic - old news and cheap out.
Was it too predictable? Or would any of the thousands of fan theories actually predicted have been better? Was there zero payoff or conclusions from the episode? Or did they conclude what was supposed to be the point of the whole series too soon in it?
He seems to have transported into GRRM and knows his intentions on how the show will end/the main points of the series. I guess that is better than spending several days at GRRM's house having him explain his planned ending of the story to you. Then GRRM (knowing fully how the show will end) saying that the show is "extremely faithful" to the books and that the show ending will not be that different than the ending he plans to write for the books on the major plot points (I would assume how the Others are defeated is a major plot point). LINK
Most absurd of all are his suggestions on how the episode could have went:
quote:
Remember when Dany magically survived Khal Drogo's funeral pyre in Season 1? Now imagine Jon hadn't told Dany about his true identity last season, and instead she had realized there was more to him than she thought when he stepped into her dragonfire, unharmed, and stabbed the Night King in the back. Or it's Arya--but instead of nonsensically jumping onto the Night King's back, she employs her Faceless Men magic to pose as Bran. Bran stabs the Night King, removes his face, bam, it's Arya.
On the first theory (and ignoring his butchering of the shows facts/timelines)...We don't know if Targaryens can survive dragon fire in the show (they cannot in the books). Second, Jon does not know about Targaryens surviving fire. Third, why would Jon commit suicide by walking into fire, when for all they know dragon fire has a good shot at working. I can't imagine the internet complaints about such an objectively dumb move.
On the second option, he literally suggests that Arya does the Night King's job and kill Bran to take his face. Ignoring that fact, people would have hated that conclusion because it would have been like the 10th time she uses the faceless magic - old news and cheap out.
0
Posted on 4/30/19 at 12:08 am to hawgfaninc
Yeah the magical fast travel thing has unfortunately reared it's head in the past few seasons of Game of Thrones, and I believe it's a symptom of them rushing things.
Ever since Dany arrived in Westeros everything has been rushed.
I remember when it took an entire season for characters to cross the continent.
Ever since Dany arrived in Westeros everything has been rushed.
I remember when it took an entire season for characters to cross the continent.
Posted on 4/30/19 at 12:13 am to PEPE
Posted on 4/30/19 at 12:17 am to Jack Ruby
People who liked the episode are going to get lost in rebuking specific points made in the OP but... a better episode would have had payoffs from things which were long hinted at but still obscured to the reader/viewer (until after they happened).
The Hodor episode is an example of this done properly. The fact that the payout didn't resonate with the audience strongly is a sign of failure at some level. Most non readers (and more casual readers) haven't become emotionally invested in the possibilities of Azor Ahai or other central mythologies of the Seven Kingdoms - but the show could bring this knowledge into the episode and satisfy both their casual and more rabid fans.
FWIW, I agree with the writer that the conflict with the Night King is obviously more consequential than the game of thrones between the royal houses. After all, if there are no remaining living that is an evil that obviously outweighs the atrocities that another mad king type of rule can inflict on the living for the length of her reign.
The Hodor episode is an example of this done properly. The fact that the payout didn't resonate with the audience strongly is a sign of failure at some level. Most non readers (and more casual readers) haven't become emotionally invested in the possibilities of Azor Ahai or other central mythologies of the Seven Kingdoms - but the show could bring this knowledge into the episode and satisfy both their casual and more rabid fans.
FWIW, I agree with the writer that the conflict with the Night King is obviously more consequential than the game of thrones between the royal houses. After all, if there are no remaining living that is an evil that obviously outweighs the atrocities that another mad king type of rule can inflict on the living for the length of her reign.
Posted on 4/30/19 at 12:33 am to hawgfaninc
Is that Oweo?
Posted on 4/30/19 at 8:42 am to Dr RC
Right, really nice he decided to stop and do that to her so she had the chance to get the kill and die in her hero moment
Posted on 4/30/19 at 9:52 am to MF Doom
quote:
Aryas ark is more cliche anime shite
all the characters are cliches, in one way or another:
Jon Snow is as cliche as a hero can be. Dude is straight up insufferably boring.
Dany is a walking "return my family to glory" cliche
Sansa is basically Wuthering Heights
The Hound is your basic anti-hero
Berric is your standard holy warrior
Brienne is Mulan/Joan of Arc minus the lies
Jorah the jilted hopeless romantic
Tyrion the basic man behind the man
Cersei the evil queen cliche
You could go on and on.
I think the least cliched characters are Varys and Melisandre. . .and even they are cliched in some senses.
Posted on 4/30/19 at 10:04 am to Jack Ruby
I've seen some valid reasoning for people being disappointed in this episode. I've never been very invested in this show, so people complaining just sounded like whiners. But I've watched some youtube reviews, and I get it. A lot was riding on this episode, and it was very lazy. I get that there's really no way to end all of this perfectly, but I'm starting to understand just how extremely lazy that episode was done. I know there are three episodes left, but barring some miracle, I feel like the laziness will continue. I feel like the writers are throwing shite together without much thought. Just my opinion. And I feel bad for GOT enthusiast.
Posted on 4/30/19 at 10:34 am to Jack Ruby
I can't go along with the whole NK and winter being the end all be all for the show. Even if they all banded together temporarily, you think they're gonna be all sunshine and rainbows after? There was always going to need to be an aftermath.
If anything, I think what's going on shows that despite a world ending threat, people like Cersei will always play the game to their advantage.
If anything, I think what's going on shows that despite a world ending threat, people like Cersei will always play the game to their advantage.
Posted on 4/30/19 at 10:37 am to Jack Ruby
Spot on in so many ways on the failures of this episode. I’m not completely sold in the night king’s army being the main antagonist but it was completely inexcusable to not have any depth whatsoever into their motives/history between the others and the ravens.
It was extremely anticlimactic and lazy.
It was extremely anticlimactic and lazy.
This post was edited on 4/30/19 at 10:40 am
Posted on 4/30/19 at 11:11 am to Green Chili Tiger
We had a prophecy.
Posted on 4/30/19 at 12:52 pm to TigerCruise
quote:
I told my gf 5 minutes in what was going to happen
You sound like a blast to watch the show with.
Posted on 4/30/19 at 1:35 pm to Jack Ruby
So much wrong with these takes, they're really bad.
quote:Did he predict it? Fwiw, not many predicted it, so how can it be the "most predictable way imaginable?"
And it happened in the least inventive, most predictable way imaginable.
quote:It would be great if all their strategies were super awesome and worked out perfectly, that would make the show really entertaining, right?
And all their strategies were terrible
quote:I don't think that was their strategy, that is the crazy Dothrakis just winging it and going off.
They wasted the Dothraki in a single pointless charge
quote:That also wasn't the strategy that he insinuates, and even still, they also had no clue the NK could make a storm like that to limit their view.
Jon and Dany flew around in the clouds doing nothing for minutes on end
quote:This is fair
and they sent their most vulnerable people underground to the place with dozens of pre-packaged zombies just waiting for the Night King to pop them into the microwave.
quote:Yea, that's kinda of Arya's thing, I guess the author didn't realize that, which is weird.
and the Night King and all his generals didn't hear the young woman sneaking up on them through the snow.
quote:Wait wait wait...He is saying on one hand that it happened in the most predictable way imaginable then in the next statement he expected something else?
We expected Game of Thrones to be better. And unfortunately, the show did what it's done so many times before: It turned our expectations upside-down
Posted on 4/30/19 at 1:38 pm to Sneaky__Sally
quote:When you complain about stuff like this, it just seems like you're doing it just for the sake of complaining.
Little mormont girl killing the giant is a prime example. Smashes every other person with the big club at a distance but picks her up and stares to get stabbed in the eye.
Posted on 4/30/19 at 1:40 pm to TigerCruise
quote:
Because it was so incredibly obvious people were being creative.
quote:That the NK would lose? Yea, I think we all knew that.
I told my gf 5 minutes in what was going to happen
quote:So what exactly did you predict?
Arya being the one that killed the NK was really the only surprise.
Posted on 4/30/19 at 1:49 pm to shel311
I think you could tell Arya was planning to kill the NK.
In fact I thought it off that the red witch had to tell her anything.
But I didn’t see the dagger being the weapon, I had assumed her boyfriend was making one for her out of the dragon glass.
I thought the storming of the castle was weak. They quit using catapults as s defense, there were few archers, and no boiling oil. Once the dead bridge the fire there wasn’t much from the defenders.
In fact I thought it off that the red witch had to tell her anything.
But I didn’t see the dagger being the weapon, I had assumed her boyfriend was making one for her out of the dragon glass.
I thought the storming of the castle was weak. They quit using catapults as s defense, there were few archers, and no boiling oil. Once the dead bridge the fire there wasn’t much from the defenders.
Posted on 4/30/19 at 10:12 pm to Jack Ruby
Well written article, and I agree with it all.
Posted on 4/30/19 at 10:31 pm to Dr RC
quote:do wee need to over analyze and measure, for you, the distance it would take for her to get a dagger through his eye? Yes they wrote it in for the night giant to pull her close to her s face to look at her just so she could have a heroic moment. That can't be argued. The admitted it after the episode.
What are you talking about? Staring at her? He was crushing her to death and was about to bite her head off.
Posted on 4/30/19 at 10:34 pm to Jack Ruby
quote:
Where do I even start? I guess with the fact that it seems like Game of Thrones, the show, has just missed the point of the entire series: that the squabbles between the great houses of Westeros are nothing compared with the unstoppable force of nature slowly bearing down on them from the wintery north. Game of Thrones was never supposed to actually be about the battle for the throne--it's supposed to be about the characters coming together to realize what was really important.
Posted on 4/30/19 at 10:39 pm to Ssubba
quote:
I agree with him for the most part. The "throne storyline" was always suppose to be secondary once The Red Wedding happened. One of the major themes of the series was that magic was slowly seeping back into the world. It should have culminated with the final battle, ice vs fire.
100% this.
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