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re: The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power S1, Ep. 1 and 2 Thread | Amazon 9:00 pm EDT
Posted on 9/2/22 at 11:08 am to blueboy
Posted on 9/2/22 at 11:08 am to blueboy
quote:From that perspective, why do any of the Noldor? Finrod, Fingon, Fingolfin etc are all more powerful than Galadriel. Certainly Feanor was. They all proudly wore their armor into battles.quote:
1) Why would Galadriel need or want armor or a sword? That's like giving an ICBM nuke, a gun turret
That's been my argument from day 1.
I think you're falling for the concept of "Elven Magic", which Tolkien himself referenced in the books. They have ability and skills beyond what the Hobbits could imagine, and beyond what any mortal could bring to bear... but they weren't what D&D or other role-playing games would consider "magic users". Some could sing Songs of Power (interpret however you will, he leaves it intentionally vague), could weave illusions etc. They didn't wave away a pack of Orcs with a superhero ray blast. They FOUGHT, with swords, spears, hammers and axes.
The gripe with Galadriel is because she's a female. Well, she's a female Elf, who came to Middle Earth in the cause to bring war to Morgoth. She's not some human woman caught up in this.
In LOTR she's perceived as some mysterious and deadly Elven witch (per Gimli), but that's after having her Ring for several thousand years and living in a closed society (Lothlorien). Elrond is also some wise sage in Rivendell, a magical kingdom... he flat-out says he was on the battlefield when Sauron fell. Elves fight.
Comes down to whether you can accept a female Elf fighting, or not. Since they're not human, and thus a different society entirely, it isn't preset what they did.
3
Posted on 9/2/22 at 11:10 am to SammyTiger
quote:You are assuming that to be the reason. Almost every time it is, "I don't know, just doesn't"
ut if they did you could say “I dont Feel any of the relief or excitement you usually get at the end of the work week”
Because it is a feeling
Posted on 9/2/22 at 11:11 am to Scoob
Right
Her mother gave her the name Nerwen meaning “man-maiden”
I think There is enough support in the books that people who claim they are butchering the character are off base.
Her mother gave her the name Nerwen meaning “man-maiden”
I think There is enough support in the books that people who claim they are butchering the character are off base.
This post was edited on 9/2/22 at 11:14 am
Posted on 9/2/22 at 11:13 am to Scoob
So for Galadriel and armor/fighting…
I think most people, I know for me at least, are not happy about it and it’s more simple than arguing about feasibility because of gender, necessity because of power, etc. I’d be completely fine with a female character doing these things
It feels wrong because we already have a picture of Galadriel from the movies and it goes so against that. I feels unnatural and forced because of that. It is hard to see her making emotional decisions and then knowing how she will one day be viewed. Keep in mind this is an important elf, not a mortal who learns the hard way from mistakes (at least shouldn’t be like that so much).
I think most people, I know for me at least, are not happy about it and it’s more simple than arguing about feasibility because of gender, necessity because of power, etc. I’d be completely fine with a female character doing these things
It feels wrong because we already have a picture of Galadriel from the movies and it goes so against that. I feels unnatural and forced because of that. It is hard to see her making emotional decisions and then knowing how she will one day be viewed. Keep in mind this is an important elf, not a mortal who learns the hard way from mistakes (at least shouldn’t be like that so much).
Posted on 9/2/22 at 11:20 am to jeff5891
Celebrimbor and Annatar should be the main characters if you're going to do a show about the forging of the rings.
Those are the two that ACTUALLY forged them.
LINK it back to Feanor and the Silamrils, etc. You could even make up some stuff about how conflicted Celebrimbor should be because he he knows what happened to Feanor after he made the Silamrils, but pride and list gets him (with the persuasion by Annatar/Sauron) and he falls into the same trap and it changes Middle Earth forever.
You could even include Galadriel in the show. Wasn't she already set up in Lindon or Mirkwood or somehere in the Second Age?
You could show her faction of skepticism, etc., from afar. It would work.
Those are the two that ACTUALLY forged them.
LINK it back to Feanor and the Silamrils, etc. You could even make up some stuff about how conflicted Celebrimbor should be because he he knows what happened to Feanor after he made the Silamrils, but pride and list gets him (with the persuasion by Annatar/Sauron) and he falls into the same trap and it changes Middle Earth forever.
You could even include Galadriel in the show. Wasn't she already set up in Lindon or Mirkwood or somehere in the Second Age?
You could show her faction of skepticism, etc., from afar. It would work.
Posted on 9/2/22 at 11:20 am to SammyTiger
quote:It is remarkably inconsistent. Those you listed wore armor, because they led armies into battle. It was ceremonial more than practical.
It’s a Liberty for sure but not an insane one.
Galadriel has never led an army into battle, because that would be a stunning alteration of her character. Therefore armor would be ridiculous.
The reason a sword is laughably absurd, is because Galadriel is a primary magic user. A fantastically powerful one at that. Never did she use one in the books, because she fought with wisdom and and magic.
Posted on 9/2/22 at 11:28 am to OBReb6
quote:Keep in mind, your impression of Galadriel is from a snapshot SEVERAL THOUSAND YEARS later than this.
It feels wrong because we already have a picture of Galadriel from the movies and it goes so against that. I feels unnatural and forced because of that. It is hard to see her making emotional decisions and then knowing how she will one day be viewed. Keep in mind this is an important elf, not a mortal who learns the hard way from mistakes (at least shouldn’t be like that so much).
In LOTR, she is older, wiser, acknowledges they are fighting the Great Defeat, has deep sadness and regrets mingled, and also admits that long has she desired the power of the One Ring. She declines, understanding what it would mean for her and Middle Earth, based on her millennia of experience.
This version of Galadriel is fresh off a huge war, as yet unmarried, has the recent loss of her entire family, does not yet possess one of the Three, etc.
It's an interesting concept, one occasionally touched on in literature- you grow and change.
Ever watch Star Trek TNG? There's an episode where Q lets Picard relive his life, based on his experiences. In that episode, Picard never takes the foolish risks he did, knowing their outcomes. So, he's on the Enterprise- as a supply clerk or something like that. Riker barks at him but doesn't even know his name. By never risking, failing and moving on, he never grew.
If you have Galadriel as never-changing, you put the same stagnation on her. The sage, wise Queen she is in Lothlorien would never have left Valinor.
Posted on 9/2/22 at 11:30 am to Roaad
quote:
It is remarkably inconsistent. Those you listed wore armor, because they led armies into battle. It was ceremonial more than practical.
Fëanor didn’t just lead people into battle. He fought and died of wounds in battle. If someone can be stabbed to death and they’re in situations where that is a possibility their armor isn’t ceremonial.
quote:
Galadriel has never led an army into battle, because that would be a stunning alteration of her character. Therefore armor would be ridiculous.
She has fought in battles and can die if stabbed. It’s not ridiculous.
quote:
The reason a sword is laughably absurd, is because Galadriel is a primary magic user. A fantastically powerful one at that. Never did she use one in the books, because she fought with wisdom and and magic.
Never mind 90% of this is based on very general passages that read like:
"So it came to pass that when the light of Valinor failed, for ever as the Noldor thought, she joined the rebellion against the Valar who commanded them to stay; and once she had set foot upon that road of exile she would not relent, but rejected the last message of the Valar, and came under the Doom of Mandos. Even after the merciless assault upon the Teleri and the rape of their ships, though she fought fiercely against Fëanor in defence of her mother's kin, she did not turn back. Her pride was unwilling to return, a defeated suppliant for pardon; but now she burned with desire to follow Fëanor with her anger to whatever lands he might come, and to thwart him in all ways that she could." - the Unfinished Tales
(Double whammy if not only showing that she fought fierce battles but also that she had a pride issue in her younger days)
Posted on 9/2/22 at 11:36 am to SammyTiger
quote:The armor was ceremonial, not useless.
Fëanor didn’t just lead people into battle. He fought and died of wounds in battle. If someone can be stabbed to death and they’re in situations where that is a possibility their armor isn’t ceremonial.
Leading into battle implies that you fought.
quote:sure
She has fought in battles and can die if stabbed.
So we can assume she was never on the frontlines, else her armor and sword would be mentioned.
quote:Being a huge character, if she lead armies into battle, wore armor, or wielded a sword. . .not only would they be mentioned, but they would be revered.
very general passages
Posted on 9/2/22 at 11:38 am to Scoob
quote:NO he doesn't. Songs of Power brought existence into being. They aren't as good at it as the Valar or Eru Ilúvatar, but they are definitely a form of powerful magic.
Some could sing Songs of Power (interpret however you will, he leaves it intentionally vague)
And sometimes, when characters are using actual swords and armor, they are often more magical lenses or focal points than steel weapons, like Gandalf with Glamdring. Sauron, for example, isn't just swinging a club. It's an incredibly powerful artifact. The same goes with the balrog's whip and sword. Its main power is spells. The weapons only aid in focusing those spells.
Saying that the show is trying to make her 'warrior Galadriel' is not an invalid argument. She also comes off as a pissy activists, which is definitely not unintentional, as that's what the show creators regard as 'heroic.'
Posted on 9/2/22 at 11:38 am to Roaad
whos the tarzan guy?
Posted on 9/2/22 at 11:40 am to Fusaichi Pegasus
Ashley Williams, Housewares
Shop smart, shop S-Mart
Shop smart, shop S-Mart
Posted on 9/2/22 at 11:48 am to Roaad
quote:
The armor was ceremonial, not useless.
You said more ceremonial that practical. Which implies more for show than necessity.
Maybe it was ornate but it was also needed.
quote:
So we can assume she was never on the frontlines, else her armor and sword would be mentioned.
That’s a big assumption. I literally Quoted a passage Tolkien wrote that described fierce fighting and no other details.
quote:
Being a huge character, if she lead armies into battle, wore armor, or wielded a sword. . .not only would they be mentioned, but they would be revered.
Again, I showed You an actual quote that doesn’t.
You’re making assumptions and that’s fine as a reader but not universal truth.
Posted on 9/2/22 at 11:49 am to blueboy
quote:
Saying that the show is trying to make her 'warrior Galadriel' is not an invalid argument. She also comes off as a pissy activists, which is definitely not unintentional, as that's what the show creators regard as 'heroic
The definitely comes off as Pissy. “Activist” it’s not like she’s shouting girl power, she’s just right about Sauron. And again, that’s supported by the source material.
If she keeps up this pace I agree It will be a long show, but I do think pride is a flaw and Halbrand is supposed to temper that.
This post was edited on 9/2/22 at 11:51 am
Posted on 9/2/22 at 11:52 am to SammyTiger
I think the first two episodes are pretty damn good. I’m excited for the rest of the show.
Posted on 9/2/22 at 12:03 pm to SammyTiger
quote:Did Galadriel?
Fëanor didn’t just lead people into battle. He fought and died of wounds in battle.
Posted on 9/2/22 at 12:07 pm to BluegrassBelle
Damn, I lost my college bet last night...good news is I hedged it with this The other post that is full of adults crying...and whoda thought. PAGE 1
It's comical how much complaining there is. Who would have ever thought a TV show would make grown arse adults argue as if they were 12 year olds LOL. I've never seen anything like this. It's like a train wreck you can't look away from. At this point, please keep going. It doesn't get much better than whining on a movie forum to people you don't know about a show you don't care to watch
It's comical how much complaining there is. Who would have ever thought a TV show would make grown arse adults argue as if they were 12 year olds LOL. I've never seen anything like this. It's like a train wreck you can't look away from. At this point, please keep going. It doesn't get much better than whining on a movie forum to people you don't know about a show you don't care to watch
Posted on 9/2/22 at 12:08 pm to TexasTiger1185
Someone mentioned the absurdity of Galadriel leaping overboard...
She's an Elf, not a human. They have different bodies. This seems simply to be a different extension of that concept; she (an Elf) apparently would be capable of continuously swimming, without succumbing to fatigue, until she reaches land. Food- well, it's nice, but not necessary like for humans. Sleep- same thing. She could drift into basically a state of meditation, possibly contemplate the wonders of Ulmo's realm and speculate whether he or Osse might show up to speak to her, and just keep those arms and legs moving, until she hits a beach. And then roll over and say "well, that was a workout, I might rest here 30 minutes and then go find out where I'm at".
Because that's what an Elf could do.
She's an Elf, not a human. They have different bodies. This seems simply to be a different extension of that concept; she (an Elf) apparently would be capable of continuously swimming, without succumbing to fatigue, until she reaches land. Food- well, it's nice, but not necessary like for humans. Sleep- same thing. She could drift into basically a state of meditation, possibly contemplate the wonders of Ulmo's realm and speculate whether he or Osse might show up to speak to her, and just keep those arms and legs moving, until she hits a beach. And then roll over and say "well, that was a workout, I might rest here 30 minutes and then go find out where I'm at".
Because that's what an Elf could do.
Posted on 9/2/22 at 12:14 pm to blueboy
That quote makes it seem like she did.
Posted on 9/2/22 at 12:18 pm to Tacktheritrix
This thread is 100x more civil.
I think It’s secretly because it not anywhere near as bad as they were pretending it was going to be.
And there are concrete things to discuss.
I think It’s secretly because it not anywhere near as bad as they were pretending it was going to be.
And there are concrete things to discuss.
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