re: The Last of Us | S1, Ep 9 Season Finale | NO GAME SPOILERS Thread

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You just missed the whole point of the fricking show, huh? This isn’t nearly as black and white as you painted it and you know that.

You clearly don’t empathize with Joel and what he’s gone through. Otherwise, you’d hesitate on calling him a psychopath.

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I know this wasn't in response to me but I do agree with some of his points. You could semi paint him snapping at the end as black and white. I empathize with him, that's one of the reasons I loved the first episode so much, what happened to him was just gut wrenching.

I'm not calling him a psychopath (I can see why someone would) but despite his past and current feelings building up to a daughter like relationship, he still made a choice to kill people that didn't deserve to die. Joel and Ellie are who we were rooting for, but Marlene didn't deserve to die. Hell even a guy like the surgeon didn't need to die. He was defenseless and doing something that could potentially effect the entire world for the better. Why not just knock him out or let Marlene go after you've already shot her once. was killing a now basically harmless Marlene (again, not a character I was crazy about or something) something that benefited Ellie? Not at all. He killed people that didn't deserve to die, I don't know if that classifies you as a psychopath (lack of regret would), but it doesn't make you a hero, or even a good person.

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Also….you think in that world….where they are using an abandoned post apocalyptic hospital…..you can cut out massive chunks of someone’s brain in surgery and they live?

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Yeah, it was pretty obvious she was not going to make it. Even if she did, you would expect her being "not all there".

Also, Marlene giving Joel Ellie's knife kind of cements she was not going to live.

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She was essentially killing Joel by throwing him outside with no pack and no gun.

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Pretty sure he was getting his pack but no gun. He was getting his pack and the knife.

Also if he let Marlene live she 100% would have done all she could to find them and come after them. Or she could have told someone else all she knew and have them go after them.

Remember Tommy used to be part of the Fireflies. He knows Marlene. Marlene could have an idea where Tommy is at now and come looking.

But Marlene gave Joel Ellie's knife, knowing what that knife means to Ellie. If she thought there was a chance, she would not have done that.

You are applying modern medicine to a time where they are not modern anymore.

Why would she give away Ellie’s switchblade….which was actually her mom’s….to Joel if she thought Ellie would live?

Marlene was good friends with Ellie’s mom. It was her last wish for Ellie to get the switchblade. So Marlene knows that’s a precious possession.

Surely, you’re not this stupid. It’s called subtext


People very rarely say EXACTLY what what they want to say. You’re not going to go up to a guy who considers the patient his daughter and say, “she’s going to die.” Especially if that person was able to survive a cross country journey in a post apocalyptic world. Marlene knows Joel would straight up kill her if she put it to him like that

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I have never said Joel was a good person. He’s not. But he’s not a psychopath.

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I think he’s a psychopath but not due to a lack of empathy but a lack of reasoning. He was so quick to kill a doctor (a brain surgeon at that) when there are likely few still around. It’s not like there are Med schools or even many working clinics to keep them replenished. A cure seems to be dependent on their existence. At the same time is there even much of a danger still due to the virus? If there is the show certainly doesn’t paint that picture.

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but a lack of reasoning. He was so quick to kill a doctor (a brain surgeon at that) when there are likely few still around

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The guy held up a scalpel. He didn’t kill the nurses. Joel was eliminating any and all threats.

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She could have but we don’t know

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To be fair, you cant say that you don't know this and then say this...

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She was essentially killing Joel by throwing him outside with no pack and no gun.

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If Ellie had decided against it, Marlene would have taken her in to get the surgery anyway. She wasn’t letting that chance slip through her fingers.

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We don't know either of those things either. Although I'd say I think Joel would have had his stuff and that she wasn't trying to kill him unless he resisted. But I tend to agree that she would have taken her to surgery anyway.

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My whole point is that neither Joel nor the Fireflies were right

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Yea. I'm just picking between the lesser of the two evils/jacked up decisions. It's like a "would you kill baby Hitler" question but to an even more beneficial degree. I don't know if I could kill him, but I would definitely let someone else do it. I couldn't kill Ellie, but I see the benefit of all mankind as opposed to the benefit of just Joel.