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re: the ending of Shutter Island - discussion (SPOILERS)
Posted on 2/22/10 at 12:22 pm to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 2/22/10 at 12:22 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:So, to you, the only possible personalities are Crazy/NotCrazy? The point is NOT that he is crazy, it is the why. It is not a binary "is he crazy?" but a study as to WHY he is crazy.
i wasn't worried that anything would happen to him, especially after i was sure he was crazy
I was sure he was crazy early as well, but I was fascinated as to why. Like tying his own child to the dead in Dachau. I mean, it was obvious to me he was insane, because it's not like they "implanted" him with these crazy dreams. They are his, without their intervention. So I was watching it from the angle that Leo is Crazy from an early point as well, and it was still a rich character study. It's not like once a person is insane he ceases to have any other aspects to his personality.
2
Posted on 2/22/10 at 12:28 pm to Baloo
quote:
So, to you, the only possible personalities are Crazy/NotCrazy?
in this movie, what other choice was there?
quote:
but a study as to WHY he is crazy.
you have 2 options for this also. both were revealed somewhat early in the movie
quote:
It's not like once a person is insane he ceases to have any other aspects to his personality.
actually...considering what we are told about how his mind is in 1 loop...he has that 1 loop and nothing else (when crazy)
Posted on 2/22/10 at 12:31 pm to Baloo
he tells the doctors early on in a very forefull tone---"You can never take a way a man's memories!"
i really thought that was a powerful line that later took on far greater meaning.
i really thought that was a powerful line that later took on far greater meaning.
Posted on 2/22/10 at 12:33 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:Literally infinite. But since you chose to watch it solely as a crazy/notcrazy binary movie with no other reason, I can see why you were disappointed. But I think that says more about you than the film, to be honest.
in this movie, what other choice was there?
You like either/or binary discussions. Anything that doesn't fit that box has to be crammed into it, and since this movie doesn't really hide its "reveal", it was certainly going to disappoint someone approaching this film from your standpoint.
I think the film guides us to the moral choice at the end: do you live as monster (like he has) or die as a good man (which he chooses at the end)? And I think the question gets into that morality: is he a good man?
Posted on 2/22/10 at 12:36 pm to Baloo
quote:
You like either/or binary discussions. Anything that doesn't fit that box has to be crammed into it, and since this movie doesn't really hide its "reveal", it was certainly going to disappoint someone approaching this film from your standpoint.
it was just a boring movie. the story itself was weak and uninteresting
quote:
And I think the question gets into that morality: is he a good man?
we don't know who he truly is, outside of 2 major events in his life, to judge
Posted on 2/22/10 at 12:42 pm to SlowFlowPro
other than him being a soldier in WWII and a US Marshal you mean? i guess you would've preferred a five hour biography about his middle school days
Posted on 2/22/10 at 12:46 pm to manwich
quote:
other than him being a soldier in WWII and a US Marshal you mean?
well the concentration camp episode and the wife episode are the 2 episodes that could have caused it
i mean something totally unrelated and random COULD have caused it, but scorcese usually makes a "well done film," where extraneous shite like that doesn't just pop up out of nowhere
Posted on 2/22/10 at 12:49 pm to DanMullenIsOurMan
Teddy.
I think he knew that he was never going to be able to leave the island, so he went along with what they were telling him. He knew the consequences if he regressed and I think he gave it away to his partner at the end when he asked him if he would rather live like a monster or die as a good man.
ETA: I was not blown away by this movie. I did like it, but they could have done better I think. They tried to sell the whole thriller aspect way too early.
I think he knew that he was never going to be able to leave the island, so he went along with what they were telling him. He knew the consequences if he regressed and I think he gave it away to his partner at the end when he asked him if he would rather live like a monster or die as a good man.
ETA: I was not blown away by this movie. I did like it, but they could have done better I think. They tried to sell the whole thriller aspect way too early.
This post was edited on 2/22/10 at 12:53 pm
Posted on 2/22/10 at 12:52 pm to manwich
Honestly the the driving force behind his psychosis isn't the war or his wife's act of murder. It is his his own guilt over being an alchoholic and ignoring her plight and not being there to save his kids. He blamed himself. He was riddled with guilt.
Posted on 2/22/10 at 12:54 pm to Tiger Ryno
quote:Ironic that SFP only gave 2 options for his psychosis and this wasn't one of them.
Honestly the the driving force behind his psychosis isn't the war or his wife's act of murder. It is his his own guilt over being an alchoholic and ignoring her plight and not being there to save his kids. He blamed himself. He was riddled with guilt.
Posted on 2/22/10 at 12:57 pm to Baloo
the scene early on where he confronts "Laediss" sitting in teh chair by the fire is very telling.
The Laeddis his confronts is grotesque, scarred, evil and offers him a drink from his coat. This was how he viewed himself. Someone so dispicable and disfigured he couldn't even bear to see it in the mirror, hence he creates another Persona.
The Laeddis his confronts is grotesque, scarred, evil and offers him a drink from his coat. This was how he viewed himself. Someone so dispicable and disfigured he couldn't even bear to see it in the mirror, hence he creates another Persona.
Posted on 2/22/10 at 12:58 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:that still holds true assuming you don't consider the screenplay as "nowhere"
scorcese usually makes a "well done film," where extraneous shite like that doesn't just pop up out of nowhere
Posted on 2/22/10 at 12:59 pm to Tiger Ryno
quote:
Honestly the the driving force behind his psychosis isn't the war or his wife's act of murder. It is his his own guilt over being an alchoholic and ignoring her plight and not being there to save his kids. He blamed himself. He was riddled with guilt.
if she hadn't killed the kids, none of this would matter. she killed the kids
THEN he snapped
THEN he killed her
Posted on 2/22/10 at 1:01 pm to SlowFlowPro
He still loved his wife even after he saw what she did. He didn't kill her out of revenge. he killed her to set her free. its clear.
He snapped because he felt like he actually killed the kids by ignoring her plight and drinking instead.
He snapped because he felt like he actually killed the kids by ignoring her plight and drinking instead.
Posted on 2/22/10 at 1:03 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:correct again. all of this was covered in the movie. unfortunately, your point is both weird and wrong
if she hadn't killed the kids, none of this would matter.
Posted on 2/22/10 at 1:04 pm to J Murdah
Ok now things are starting to come together for me. Whenever the doctors were telling teddy that this lady had created an alternate reality for herself they were hinting at him creating an alternate reality for himself.
Also, I think the room that rachel dissapeared from was his room. He found that hidden note very quickly, almost like he knew where to look. In the end Rachel was a nurse, which could hint that she was never a patient, just played one for Teddy's sake.
Also, I think the room that rachel dissapeared from was his room. He found that hidden note very quickly, almost like he knew where to look. In the end Rachel was a nurse, which could hint that she was never a patient, just played one for Teddy's sake.
Posted on 2/22/10 at 1:04 pm to Tiger Ryno
quote:just like Old Yeller. i think the blonde hair and yellow dress made that obvious enough
he killed her to set her free
Posted on 2/22/10 at 1:05 pm to Tiger Ryno
quote:
He snapped because he felt like he actually killed the kids by ignoring her plight and drinking instead.
thought processes like these are why i could never accept freudian-based psychology
in that rush of stimuli (in reality) this sort of deep thought doesn't occur
too much trauma
too many thoughts entering and exiting your head quickly
could this guilt develop over time, re-living the moment over and over? sure
but he didn't have that much time between finding his kids and killing his wife
Posted on 2/22/10 at 1:07 pm to SlowFlowPro
I can really tell you are in law school by how you debate movies like this
Posted on 2/22/10 at 1:08 pm to SlowFlowPro
it did happen over time. The snapping wasn't him killing his wife. He knew what he was doing and why he was doing it---again not for revenge, but because he knew she was a deeply disturbed person who needed and wanted desperately to be freed from her sickness.
The snapping was him eventually creating this alter ego adn distancing himself from what really happened and refusing to come to grips with who he was and what actually happened. He couldn't let go of her as the person he wanted her to be and so he created a fals image of her as well.
This stuff didn't happen in the 5 minutes between him finding the kids and shooting his wife.
The snapping was him eventually creating this alter ego adn distancing himself from what really happened and refusing to come to grips with who he was and what actually happened. He couldn't let go of her as the person he wanted her to be and so he created a fals image of her as well.
This stuff didn't happen in the 5 minutes between him finding the kids and shooting his wife.
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