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Message
re: The Big Short (spoiler free)
Posted on 1/2/16 at 2:46 pm to funnystuff
Posted on 1/2/16 at 2:46 pm to funnystuff
quote:
And The Big Short was always a book about the market side failures of the system leading to/during the crisis. If you want to get more of the government's/Fed's involvement, you should try Too Big To Fail. There's only so much of this complex story you can cover in 2 hours.
The book and movie also ignored a missing element - that government policy emphasized "affordable housing" and emphasized increasing home ownership rates as if the outcome measure was more important than the obvious risk of that outcome measure. The movie even deliberately belittled those tempted to make the argument that people taking out these loans had a hand in the crisis by branding this group as "poor people and immigrants" rather than the more common sense branding of "entitled citizens that should have remained as renters instead of taking out loans they couldn't afford to become home owners by stupidly committing to adjustable rate loans". But obviously a good crisis sells better when there are corporate villains instead of Joe Citizens as villains.
Overall, I loved this treatment of the book. The cutaway celebrity cameos to explain some of the more complicated explanations made the content seem so much more attainable - if Selena Gomez can appear to understand it, so can I.
Christian Bale stood out to me as the kind of an actor that can become a character, unlike numerous famous actors that merely play themselves in every role.
SPOILER ALERT:
At the end...the economy collapses.
This post was edited on 1/2/16 at 2:48 pm
Posted on 1/2/16 at 3:36 pm to Willie Stroker
quote:
"entitled citizens that should have remained as renters instead of taking out loans they couldn't afford to become home owners by stupidly committing to adjustable rate loans"
Expecting a significant portion of the population to just get smarter when greedy people are feeding lies to get richer is asking a lot. I mean whose more to blame the predator or the prey.
I see what your getting at though and your right some blame should be cast that way. The movie covered that part with pretty well with the stripper scene I thought.
Also like the Carell and Pitt character being the other side of the coin that even though they made money off of misfortune it really didn't sit right with them.
Posted on 1/2/16 at 4:53 pm to mindbreaker
quote:
Expecting a significant portion of the population to just get smarter when greedy people are feeding lies to get richer is asking a lot. I mean whose more to blame the predator or the prey.
I've always taken issue with the predator/prey metaphor when used to describe a free market transaction of mutual consent where both parties believe they received the better deal. Who is the predator and who is the prey when you pay extra for the non-generic brand of milk?
In my view, one of the areas of government responsibility that continues to be neglected is how in the hell we mandate schooling through age 16 while never even providing education on responsible decision making and responsible consumerism. Kids take art, theater, and other fluff classes. Yet we're puzzled how we end up with a nation of dullards.
Posted on 1/2/16 at 6:44 pm to Willie Stroker
Feel free to blame the ones taking the adjustable rate mortgages and the government for encouraging the loans to a wider segment of the population, but just remember what started the whole housing bubble. The banks had found a money tree with the bundles, and to keep feeding the beast, they needed more loans, so you are fooling yourself thinking that the banks needed much encouragement from any other source. And yes, there is such a thing as predatory lending when all or almost all the financial expertise lies on one side of the equation, especially when that side of the equation needs those signatures to keep making money. It is just another form of fraud in my opinion.
Posted on 1/2/16 at 8:59 pm to SoGaFan
Stated another way, the banks were responding to incentives. Who provides and enables those incentives?
I don't blame greed as suggested elsewhere in this thread. Greed is a constant of the human condition. People did not suddenly become greedier. Greed does not increase income one dime. The incentives changed.
You are fooling yourself by claiming "all or almost all the financial expertise lies on one side of the equation". A simple purchase decision and basic concepts of financing a loan does not require a lick of expertise. It requires knowing what happens when the adjustable rate goes up. It requires knowing what you're going to do with your financial commitment when you lose your job.
The most frequently made observation is that there was plenty blame to go around, but elitists among us seem more committed to giving a pass to those actually making the purchase decisions.
I don't blame greed as suggested elsewhere in this thread. Greed is a constant of the human condition. People did not suddenly become greedier. Greed does not increase income one dime. The incentives changed.
You are fooling yourself by claiming "all or almost all the financial expertise lies on one side of the equation". A simple purchase decision and basic concepts of financing a loan does not require a lick of expertise. It requires knowing what happens when the adjustable rate goes up. It requires knowing what you're going to do with your financial commitment when you lose your job.
The most frequently made observation is that there was plenty blame to go around, but elitists among us seem more committed to giving a pass to those actually making the purchase decisions.
Posted on 1/2/16 at 9:28 pm to Willie Stroker
There is nothing illegal about getting a loan. I don't know hardly anything about finance laws but it didn't seem like what the banks were doing was completely legal. That's why they get the shoulder of the blame here. The bad credit income people were taken advantage of not the other way around. They knew the loans were bad and didn't give a crap because MONEY!!!!!
"Oh no sir those rates won't go up the market is too strong you have nothing to worry about sign here."
Yeah there is personal responsibility to account for I agree. But some really shady shite went down and it wasn't the buyers doing that shady shite.
"Oh no sir those rates won't go up the market is too strong you have nothing to worry about sign here."
Yeah there is personal responsibility to account for I agree. But some really shady shite went down and it wasn't the buyers doing that shady shite.
Posted on 1/2/16 at 11:50 pm to mindbreaker
It wasn't home ownership fueling the bubble, it was people buying homes they couldn't afford and the subsequent defaults that caused the bubble to bust
I remember stories about people buying homes in River Ranch in Lafayette and the house was empty except for the master bedroom and the living room because the owners couldn't afford to buy furniture. I also remember hearing Robert Daigle the River Ranch developer buying homes left and right to prevent a glut of houses on the market when the teaser rate expired and the ARMs kicked in
I think they did a poor job of explaining his the protagonists profited from shorting the CDOs. They explained CDOs very well but not the flip side IMHO
I remember stories about people buying homes in River Ranch in Lafayette and the house was empty except for the master bedroom and the living room because the owners couldn't afford to buy furniture. I also remember hearing Robert Daigle the River Ranch developer buying homes left and right to prevent a glut of houses on the market when the teaser rate expired and the ARMs kicked in
I think they did a poor job of explaining his the protagonists profited from shorting the CDOs. They explained CDOs very well but not the flip side IMHO
Posted on 1/3/16 at 7:13 am to supatigah
Went not even knowing what movie was about. Christian Bale was fantastic. Kind of felt it was preachy toward the end (line about blaming immigrants and poor ppl, Neil young song, etc) loved the movie cause I like reality based behind the music borderline documentary stuff. Everyone was out to make an buck, have an angle so I saw it as fairly accurate that way.
Posted on 1/4/16 at 12:22 am to CtotheVrzrbck
Just saw it.
Fantastic movie I thought
Fantastic movie I thought
Posted on 1/5/16 at 2:49 am to fontell
Totally agree with the whole immigrant/poor ppl line at the end. Didn't everybody blame the idiot bankers and the gov't?? But McKay the director is a super lib...Bernie sanders type liberal so I thought the movie would be terribly anti capitalistic, but it totally was not and I guess he just had to get in one little left wing shot there at the end. Other than that I thought the movie was incrediblly well directed, written, and acted. Probably the best All around movie I've seen all year. Some of the casting was fantastic, from the stars to the cameos, to the role players, Carell's sidekicks were great, funny, realistic acting. I think this will be nominated for a million oscars but won't win much because whatever shite British melodrama Weinstein produced will get WAY more attention than it deserves and steal some awards.
Posted on 1/5/16 at 5:18 am to Willie Stroker
quote:
The movie even deliberately belittled those tempted to make the argument that people taking out these loans had a hand in the crisis by branding this group as "poor people and immigrants" rather than the more common sense branding of "entitled citizens that should have remained as renters instead of taking out loans they couldn't afford to become home owners by stupidly committing to adjustable rate loans". But obviously a good crisis sells better when there are corporate villains instead of Joe Citizens as villains.
Ugh... I'm sure I will enjoy this film but what you've pointed out will annoy me.
There's nothing wrong with being more honest to the public about their part in this. The majority won't learn from it otherwise. If you make only the banks, corporations and government the big bad's then it's easier for average joe to blow this off as "oh it wasn't my fault. "They" took advantage of poor little ol me.."
Posted on 1/5/16 at 7:20 am to CtotheVrzrbck
also this movie has a killer soundtrack.
Posted on 1/5/16 at 7:39 am to funnystuff
great movie but maybe not for everyone. it's almost a documentary.
-extraordinary acting by several, namely Christian bale and Steve Carell.
-as most have said politics are left out of this almosy entirely. except they couldn't resist and last 2 mins are about how the poor pay for all the mistakes that were made.
-if your looking for a wolf of wall street this isn't it. it's totally different, but I loved it all the same.
-I feel more informed and educated after watching this. shamefully had no clue what shorting something meant or the real reason behind the housing crash. pretty good reason to watch a movie. and u get to see margot robbie in a hot tub
-extraordinary acting by several, namely Christian bale and Steve Carell.
-as most have said politics are left out of this almosy entirely. except they couldn't resist and last 2 mins are about how the poor pay for all the mistakes that were made.
-if your looking for a wolf of wall street this isn't it. it's totally different, but I loved it all the same.
-I feel more informed and educated after watching this. shamefully had no clue what shorting something meant or the real reason behind the housing crash. pretty good reason to watch a movie. and u get to see margot robbie in a hot tub
Posted on 1/10/16 at 12:45 am to JohnnyQuid
Why weren't Moody's and S&P put in jail? Rating B and BB as "AAA" is a criminal act, since investors are involved under the SEC. Corporate Greed at its finest.
I read the book and must have missed the part about Dr. Burry playing the drums and constant loud music. Did the movie mention that he has Asbergers? Also, minor point, but I recall the book said a housekeeper had 5 houses, not a stripper.
I read the book and must have missed the part about Dr. Burry playing the drums and constant loud music. Did the movie mention that he has Asbergers? Also, minor point, but I recall the book said a housekeeper had 5 houses, not a stripper.
Posted on 1/10/16 at 4:00 pm to funnystuff
I went to a showing last night. Great movie
A finance professor I had at LSU helped CNBC produce their documentary, "House of Cards" which is also a great watch for those interested in the crash.
LINK
A finance professor I had at LSU helped CNBC produce their documentary, "House of Cards" which is also a great watch for those interested in the crash.
LINK
Posted on 1/10/16 at 4:26 pm to matthew25
Yea, I'm pretty sure they talked about his affinity for metalica in the book. I don't think the movie ever came out and said that he had aspergers, but Bale acted it so well that I think it could be infered.
And yea, I figured they'd play around with the truth a bit for the sake of making it more cinematic. But I was very pleased that they mostly only did this for very small details like swapping a housekeeper for a stripper. It was a very honest treatment of the source material.
I think the biggest difference that I spotted was that the movie often had Burry referencing mid-2007 as the time frame for adjustable rates to kick in and the collapse to start, but I don't remember that from the book. He obviously was aware that a crash was coming, but I thought I remembered him being surprised that it took as long as it did. Which made his battle with his investors even more intense; he didn't even have a timeline to give them beyond "any day now". Imagine being an investor hearing this for 3+ years as your investment consistently tanks.
And yea, I figured they'd play around with the truth a bit for the sake of making it more cinematic. But I was very pleased that they mostly only did this for very small details like swapping a housekeeper for a stripper. It was a very honest treatment of the source material.
I think the biggest difference that I spotted was that the movie often had Burry referencing mid-2007 as the time frame for adjustable rates to kick in and the collapse to start, but I don't remember that from the book. He obviously was aware that a crash was coming, but I thought I remembered him being surprised that it took as long as it did. Which made his battle with his investors even more intense; he didn't even have a timeline to give them beyond "any day now". Imagine being an investor hearing this for 3+ years as your investment consistently tanks.
Posted on 1/10/16 at 7:49 pm to funnystuff
My favorite part of the book is Burry fighting with his investors. Is Kyle Bass referenced in this movie at all?
Posted on 1/10/16 at 10:33 pm to wutangfinancial
No, they don't talk about Bass
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