re: Star Wars: TFA -Official Discussion Thread - Spoilers

My one complaint is Fin fighting Kylo without being insta-killed...

Imagine count dooku immediately laying waste to Kylo ren

Obi wan or anakin couldn't even hang seconds against him in clones.

Could Fin have hung with dooku and landed a shot?

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My one complaint is Fin fighting Kylo without being

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Exactly how many lightsaber battles do you think Kylo Ren has been in? Sure, he has some training and experience with the force, but his fighting style just came off as very raw. Additionally, he was injured and was shown to have to fight through the pain.

Finn is a soldier and had some degree of training. Even Jango Fett was shown to have given a Jedi all they could handle in single combat. I think the problem is that people act like Jedi and Sith are invincible against non-force users because they have a huge advantage with the force.

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Are you suggesting that Rey has no prior training? They made it pretty obvious that she had, and was beginning to tap into something long forgotten or even blocked from her memory.

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I'm starting to think that in the flashback of Rey's, Luke is actually touching her on the head and not R2. Would explain a lot...

It really is that simple. It's meant to be an enjoyble scene, and it was, IMO.

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m really beginning to think that this is really the only way that this can go. But, who was the mother? Hmmm...

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I think it's very obvious she's Luke's daughter. The intrigue will be finding out who the mother is and how she fits into all this. I heard a theory that it could Felicity Jones character in the upcoming Rogue One.

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Luke penis berthed a baby?

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Yes. I really hope they don't go the mediclorian immaculate conception route again :ugh:

Jedi have been known to frick around and have kids sometimes. Just like celibate priests. Now imagine how much more fricking around priests would do if the whole Church and all other priests disappeared.

I haven't read any of the EU books, and I know they are not canon, but that story line already exists.



:iwhi:

Mara Jade Skywalker

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Kylo showed the ability to force paralyze Rey


And put her to sleep with the wave of their hand.

I think it's safe to say that Force usage is highly inconsistent throughout Star Wars canon

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I'm going to suggest that doing various Force tricks requires concentration and focus, and more than a little preparation. Ren did the frozen blaster shot thing to impress, he strode out onto the field looking for a chance to do that, much as he planned on paralyzing Rey and taking her with him.
I don't think you can do a lot of complex Force "magic" spontaneously, you get one preplanned act, and if someone then puts up a fight you have to resort to the lightsaber, and maybe get in some fairly simple things like Force pushes. If they don't resist, you can gather yourself (and the Force), and do something else.
Ren relies a lot on intimidation to do his work; he has one preplanned move, and then can do more if everyone is just standing around in awe.

The final fight in the woods shows he isn't invincible. He shot his wad by disabling Rey, but then Finn took up the lightsaber and attacked him before he could recharge himself.

As was explained in the prequels and Annakin's piloting skills, a Force user gets the slightest edge of prediction/precognition, so he appears to have superior, even inhuman reflexes with the lightsaber. But Ren was injured, he isn't the most skilled swordsman, and Finn was an angry and trained soldier using a weapon that while he hadn't trained with, he clearly understood the basic usage of. Imagine a Marine picking up a sword and fighting an Emo collegiate fencer; he may not win, but he will bring a bit of a physical challenge just by his athleticism and combat training.

Rey is an entirely different animal. She already displayed better actual fighting skills with her staff earlier in the movie, and having a lightsaber in her hands, she probably could take Ren 5-6 times out of 10, once she figures out the different weight and limitations of the saber vs her staff. When you add into the equation that she is now able to sense the Force and use it to predict his moves as he does hers, in a straight duel, she should win most of the time.

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So in one instance a Sith can't detect a jedi 2 feet away but in another a jedi and an apprentice can feel another jedi in space leave the system.

Just stuff like that.

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Well, keep in mind there is a difference between Star Wars and something like Childhood's End.

Star Wars has basically normal people, "in tune" with the Force. They can sense it, like hearing continuous music. It may all sound like a jumble, but once you know Obi-wan sounds like a Carlos Santana guitar solo, you can then pick it out, if you try. You can tell if it's there, and if it isn't or it leaves.

Obi-wan sensed the end of Alderaan, he said it felt like a great crying out of many people that suddenly quit. He didn't know what happened, but he "heard" the sudden change; like you'd be aware that the entire brass section of an orchestra just stopped playing.

If you are aware of a certain tune, and are actively listening to it, you can know. Dooku and Obi-wan; don't remember the exact point, but there are several potential reasons. Before they meet would be if they don't know each other's tunes. Afterwards could be if one is not paying attention, or if one is able to "quiet" their own tune. Anakin, Obi-wan and Ventress- the 2 Jedi would be highly aware of each other's tunes, they are used to being partners.
Ventress- the first time they encounter, she'd be focusing on whatever tunes are there, to learn of her enemies, afterwards she'd know them. Any change would be of note. And she'd also know they are partners, you find one, you better listen for the other too.

All this tune listening is going on inside a normal mind (one trained and skilled at listening), not inside some super-evolved mind like Childhood's End. You can still have natural mistakes and oversights.

Another music theory- regular people might sound like just instruments randomly playing, like an orchestra warming up. Once they are capable of Force usage, you begin to get an actual rhythm or some other controlled tune, like some notes played on a guitar. Vader senses something from Luke, as he might have gone from just noise to playing a scale as he "uses the Force" to aim his torpedoes. He says "the Force is strong with this one". Similar with Ren sensing Rey in the chair, he gets static and noise, then suddenly Rey puts out a clear Metallica riff as she shuts her mind. Ren thinks "oh damn, she just tapped into the Force, I better stop her now, before she figures how to control it".

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It really is that simple. It's meant to be an enjoyble scene, and it was, IMO.

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That's what I find funny about debating about what characters can and can't do, and if someone should have won a fight more easily. It's like a bunch of 4th graders sitting around the lunch table arguing over these things. Everything in this movie is fantasy, and can be manipulated in such a manner as to evoke a better story. Sure, there are pre-establish rules, laws, and limits that have been built into the universe surrounding Star Wars. That doesn't mean that there won't be inconsistencies from time to time.

A New Hope would have been a terrible movie had Darth Vader crushed Obi Wan in a single blow, and then used the force to keep Luke and company from getting back onto the Millennium Falcon.

People have also gotten bent out of shape about the similarities between The Force Awakens and A New Hope. However, I think it does a great job of showing a cyclical nature in the Force. Heck, we have had The Death Star, The Death Star II, and now the Starkiller base. I'm calling it now that Ep IX will have a Star Imploader that just imploades a solar system's star to create a massive black hole.