re: OFFICIAL "The Wire" M/TV Board rewatch thread (current discussion starts ~p. 53)

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Man, this board started in 2001, by 2003 it was starting to grow AOL, Mindspring and countless other ISP's had come and gone by 2003. I guess we have to agree to disagree, but i don't the Sobtakas are THAT poor, I'm i can buy someone like Wallace doesn't know this stuff, he's squatting with other kids in a project, running an extension cord just for minimal power, but a white 20 something doesn't even get a digital camera? Come on? How does Ziggy know all this stuff and Nick is as clueless as my 80 y/old grandma was in 2003, just not buying that. Stringer knew WorldCom, you telling me the guys on the docks never HEARD of Yahoo or AOL by 2003? He doesn't have to use a search engine daily to grasp how it works.

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I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. The guys at the docks had no reason to have a computer at home, or even learn how to use one. It's not like they were going to the library and applying for jobs on monster.com or writing research papers. Most of those guys are older and prob only went through HS well before computers were invented.

Even Nick is probably in his mid to late 20s in 2003. That would put him in HS in the mid 90s which is when computers and internet were just starting to become readily available in HS. And that's likely the good HS in the good suburbs. Wouldn't surprise me if that shite didn't show up to inner city schools until later.

Zig is a few years younger than Nick so he was probably exposed to that stuff in school.

when i was a freshman i was asked to help a girl from Jennings who got into LSU. she was like a big deal and since my mom's family is from there they asked me to look over her shoulder and help her transition to LSU. i got her name from the directory and emailed her. i got a response about 2 months later and she told me she "didn't really do computers"

this was a college-bound kid in 2001

imagine what the bottom 25% of her graduating class from Jennings was doing re: computers in those days

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How does Ziggy know all this stuff and Nick is as clueless as my 80 y/old grandma was in 2003

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ziggy is smart but weak

nick is decently smart but strong

that whole exchange (there are a few other ones like the digital camera stuff) is to display that ziggy shouldn't have been pushed to the docks. frank's pride and that identification-social matrix of being a dock worker led to the ruin of Ziggy

it's symbolic of the larger picture of the futility of Frank trying to save the union and that local

it's kind of like how technology was supposed to make following them easier, but made the scheme with the greeks easier...only to be the technology that allows them to be caught and for everything to fall down

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she told me she "didn't really do computers"

this was a college-bound kid in 2001

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not "doing" computers =/= being completely baffled by their existence.

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The guys at the docks had no reason to have a computer at home, or even learn how to use one. It's not like they were going to the library and applying for jobs on monster.com or writing research papers. Most of those guys are older and prob only went through HS well before computers were invented.

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The older guys sure, Horseface doesn't know it, that I'd buy. But they did have computers at the dock in the towers and you can enter something like the # of a container or something to find its location with those handheld RTF's. I realize Nick doesn't work in the Tower or do the job like Ziggy, but he should be aware of this type of stuff. I mean Wallace was a homeless hopper he didn't get past the 8th grade knows Hamilton wasn't a POTUS and Omar knows Aires is the Greek version of Mars, (I bet 99% of the population does know that ) but a working class mid 20's white dude does get how a digital camera works?

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he should be savvy enough not to murder someone with the last name of Barksdale

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He thinks of himself as the brains behind the brawn, the "kingmaker" if you will. He likes the low profile stance he has. Although he knows that McNulty is on to him, he thinks he's smarter than the cops. This was only reinforced by his being the only major member of the organization not arrested in the sweeps at the end of Season 1.

And I remain convinced that this play was without malice. He did the objective analysis.

"If De wasn't named Barksdale and wasn't Avon's nephew, we would have shot him in the head after the incident in the tower. He's a liability and Avon can't see it. And now he's talking to the cops? It was touch and go before Brienna got him back in line. How long will that last? De isn't made for prison. He'll crack and talk soon enough.

Now - whether or not this was solid - it is reasonable. And once he settled on this, he thought killing De would be doing Avon a favor in a way.

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The older guys sure, Horseface doesn't know it, that I'd buy. But they did have computers at the dock in the towers and you can enter something like the # of a container or something to find its location with those handheld RTF's. I realize Nick doesn't work in the Tower or do the job like Ziggy, but he should be aware of this type of stuff. I mean Wallace was a homeless hopper he didn't get past the 8th grade knows Hamilton wasn't a POTUS and Omar knows Aires is the Greek version of Mars, (I bet 99% of the population does know that ) but a working class mid 20's white dude does get how a digital camera works?

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With Wallace and Omar you're talking about knowledge from books not technology. Nick probably would've known (or should've known) those same things with his schooling.

Plus it's not the computer that has Nick baffled, it's the internet and the fact that you can search and get information on almost anything. In his experience, the computer is used to track cans only.

Regarding the cameras--it's not like Nick was going out to restaurants every Friday night and taking pics with friends and uploading it to facebook. It's about exposure (pardon the pun) to the technology and he had no reason to have or learn how a digital camera worked. And he probably had no interest either, whereas Ziggy clearly had some curiosity and knew the basics. Nick's life was the docks.

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tracking the cans is the same concept though. You put in the number and enter it shows the location. You put in the name of the chemicals and it shows the use. Again, i'm not expecting the guy to be a hacker or even on Ziggy's level, but he should have enough general awareness to not be that clueless. And you can read an article in a book or newspaper or a magazine explaining how a search engine works or a digital camera the same as you can read Aires is Greek and Mars is Roman.

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You and I know that's the same concept but Nick doesn't. He's not seen that technology used for anything beyond the docks. He's probably heard about the interwebz and google but he's never had any reason to actually go and use it. It's outside of his periphery. His world consists of 1. work at docs 2. get shitfaced at the bar and 3. fondle his gf's tits. That's his life. That's what he knows. He doesn't care to know anything beyond that.

Seeing high end electronics is not the same as knowing how they work. Again, he's likely heard of digital cameras and how they don't need film, but he doesn't quite understand the concept.

I think the mistake you're making is you're imagining yourself, undoubtedly someone that is educated and has had access to technology in his shoes. But that's not the case. He isn't educated beyond crappy public schools. He doesn't go to Best Buy to look and learn about the latest tech b/c he doesn't need it or can't afford it or both. He doesn't use the internet at the library b/c his daily life doesn't require that of him.

I dunno ... I'm pretty privileged but I have family from a third world country as well. The general population there didn't know about the internet and digital cameras and shite b/c they had no use for that stuff on a daily basis. Email and IMs and cameras without film were completely foreign to them until the mid '00s. I don't think it's unreasonable for a HS graduate working manual labor at the docks to be in the same boat in the early '00s.

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If De wasn't named Barksdale and wasn't Avon's nephew, we would have shot him in the head after the incident in the tower. He's a liability and Avon can't see it. And now he's talking to the cops? It was touch and go before Brienna got him back in line. How long will that last? De isn't made for prison. He'll crack and talk soon enoug

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but he wasn't talking to the cops now, he took the 20 years. If He had whacked him at the end of season 1, that would make more sense, but it's essentially over now. What Dee knew and could give the cops has been used already, he's got nothing new.

I totally agree he see's D as weak and a liability that Avon can't see, but he is more or less out of the way now and wanting to distance himself.

stringer was protecting himself. All of the other high level people where out of the picture.

Just watched Episode 5 and this is a re-watch for me and was going to post my thoughts on the entire episode. But since this discussion is happening here is my take in regards before watching 6:

String chilling with Donette- after her visit to Dee she says D is acting all weird and didnt seem interested about what B&B doing for her.


Later String is at the jail talking to Avon about the package and Dee comes up.

String tells Avon he needs to get Dee right.
Avon is like Dee has to find his own way and he has been fair.
String is like- too fair.

String maybe interpreted that as do what you have to do in regards to Dee. I dont see String putting the pussy on pedestal