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re: OFFICIAL "The Wire" M/TV Board rewatch thread (current discussion starts ~p. 53)
Posted on 12/21/15 at 1:48 pm to Ace Midnight
Posted on 12/21/15 at 1:48 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
I think it is clear that Dee realizes this, too. He is modeling himself to be more like Stringer, while still looking up to Avon. But, you can see when he describes the promotion process, "The King stay the king." But, the Queen ("ain't no bitch") is Stringer and he clearly, obviously sees himself in the role in the future - maybe not right at that moment.
Yup.
And the chess scene also shows how as smart as he can be, his mindset is also what's holding him back. Like you said, he doesn't want to be top dog, and in a way, he knows he can't be. But he still has aspirations and respects someone like the Queen (Stringer).
But at the same time, he has the mindset of "It ain't like that. The king stay the king. Everything stay who he is. Except the pawn, he make it all the way out the other dude's side, he get to be Queen."
So it's like he only sees the game from his perspective. He thinks that the pawns generally stay soldiers and they have to make it a long way to get to be somebody. And that the king stays the king, no matter what.
That chess scene is so great because it not only shows that Dee knows some shite about the game, it also shows what he doesn't know and how shortsighted he is on a lot of things too.
Spoilers (not really, but just in case..)
I also liked how they learn that the pawns are soldiers, but can make it out the other side and be somebody. And then later in the series, when McNulty and Bodie have lunch and that awesome talk, this chess scene comes full circle with Bodie realizing that "this game is rigged" and "I feel like them little bitches on a chess board."
And then McNulty looks at him..
"You're a soldier, Bodie."
"Hell yeah.."
Watching that scene following the chess scene, shite like that is why this show is so fricking awesome. That couldn't really come any more full circle than that conversation with Bodie and McNulty. Just goes to show how stuck some people are in the game and on the streets.
1
Posted on 12/21/15 at 2:57 pm to CocomoLSU
I think your take on Dee is so far off base. Whoever said String and Dee are alike is pretty spot on. The major difference is experience. I hate to get ahead but we will find out in season 3 that Stringer is the one who isn't a "gangster". I guess your bias and double standard is making me cringe. Dee does what he has to do and does what he is told and he puts up great numbers, you can't ask for much more as a lieutenant or lower. His lack of experience and entitlement (no fault of his own) is why he breaks a few rules, but at the end of the day he is always able to be counted on.
This post was edited on 12/21/15 at 3:26 pm
Posted on 12/21/15 at 3:08 pm to 13SaintTiger
quote:
Whoever said String and Dee are alike is pretty spot on.
And I'm not sure Cokes is disputing that at this point.
I believe that Avon also sees that side of Dee, as well. As much as he trusts String and thinks of him as a brother, String isn't blood. Dee is. And Avon is, first and foremost, a family man.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 3:13 pm to 13SaintTiger
I mentioned it earlier, one of the problems with "being in the game" is that you can't be halfway in or even 90% in or people watching you will eventually figure it out. Its a common theme in the show. Its also unfair to these kids that they have to make this decision at such a young age, but that is one reason why the streets were/are so messed up. You play around on the corner for bit and its just fun, but then you have to decide, you don't 100% commit and the game eats you up and spits you out. You 100% commit and most likely you end up dead or in prison.
At this point in the show its fair to say Dee isn't all the way in. Many characters eventually get to a point where they have to decide about who they are and come to terms with it.
At this point in the show its fair to say Dee isn't all the way in. Many characters eventually get to a point where they have to decide about who they are and come to terms with it.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 3:24 pm to NOLALGD
quote:
I mentioned it earlier, one of the problems with "being in the game" is that you can't be halfway in or even 90% in or people watching you will eventually figure it out. Its a common theme in the show. Its also unfair to these kids that they have to make this decision at such a young age, but that is one reason why the streets were/are so messed up. You play around on the corner for bit and its just fun, but then you have to decide, you don't 100% commit and the game eats you up and spits you out. You 100% commit and most likely you end up dead or in prison.
The game is the game. If you are in it, it doesn't matter whether or not you want to be in it, there is no such thing as being halfway or a percentage in the game. Everyone in the game gets what is coming to them, EVERYONE. I can't get along with your assertion that the game may spit Dee out because he isn't fully committed, which is evident at season end. We also see in the series that you are able to get out the game, fair and square. And lastly, at this point Dee knows he can't get out but it doesn't stop him from dreaming.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 3:42 pm to 13SaintTiger
quote:
The game is the game. If you are in it, it doesn't matter whether or not you want to be in it, there is no such thing as being halfway or a percentage in the game. Everyone in the game gets what is coming to them, EVERYONE. I can't get along with your assertion that the game may spit Dee out because he isn't fully committed, which is evident at season end. We also see in the series that you are able to get out the game, fair and square. And lastly, at this point Dee knows he can't get out but it doesn't stop him from dreaming.
FYI, I love this thread and this debate.
I agree with all of what you said, the chess game brings out this point very clearly. I can't really explain it without jumping ahead too much, but I'm not questioning Dee's commitment, more so his "awareness" at this point in the show. Awareness of what is happening around him and who is watching him.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 3:48 pm to NOLALGD
Sorry, jumping in late here but I always saw Dee as kind of a combo of Stringer and Barksdale.
Lot's of loyalty similar to Barksdale but not nearly as wreckless and probably more on the intelligence level of Stringer but not nearly as self centered.
Dee was one of my favorite characters, or at least one of the more interesting ones.
He was somewhat naive despite his skepticism but that's why I liked him a lot.
Lot's of loyalty similar to Barksdale but not nearly as wreckless and probably more on the intelligence level of Stringer but not nearly as self centered.
Dee was one of my favorite characters, or at least one of the more interesting ones.
He was somewhat naive despite his skepticism but that's why I liked him a lot.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 3:49 pm to STLhog
quote:
He was somewhat naive despite his skepticism but that's why I liked him a lot.
I agree and why I believe he is a controversial character.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 4:20 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
And I'm not sure Cokes is disputing that at this point.
I sort of am and sort of am not.
I'm about to roll out from work though, but will pick this back up either tonight or tomorrow.
Love these discussions, btw.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 4:53 pm to CocomoLSU
To a point I can see a lil Stringer in Dee, but Stringer is a cold hearted. He would have someone killed without a thought.
I dont think he would have a problem being the King.
Getting way ahead....spoilers
IMO He was the de facto King when Avon was locked up.
I dont think he would have a problem being the King.
Getting way ahead....spoilers
IMO He was the de facto King when Avon was locked up.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 5:46 pm to LUS Tiger in FL
quote:
Stringer is a cold hearted. He would have someone killed without a thought.
. Stringer is in no way, shape, or form a Marlo.
quote:
IMO He was the de facto King when Avon was locked up.
This discussion is for later but you couldn't be more wrong.
This post was edited on 12/21/15 at 5:47 pm
Posted on 12/21/15 at 6:41 pm to 13SaintTiger
quote:
form a Marlo.
Marlo is on some next level shite, agreed. But String was cold and calculating imo.
Disagree but yeah its getting way ahead
Posted on 12/22/15 at 10:42 am to CocomoLSU
quote:Definitely one of my favorite scenes in the show. I didn't realize/forgot that it comes so early in the series.
Love the "frick" crime scene part.
quote:23 "fricks" according to LINK
frick.
Motherfricker.
fricking frick.
frick.
frick.
What the frick? frick.
frick.
-No.
-frick.
frick it.
frick.
Motherfrick.
frick.
frickity, frick, frick.
frick.
frick.
Motherfricker.
frickin' A.
frick.
Check this.
Motherfricker.
frick me.
Posted on 12/22/15 at 11:37 am to LUS Tiger in FL
quote:
IMO He was the de facto King when Avon was locked up.
Nah bro, again getting ahead but String's naivity of the streets/being blinded by things he did not understand is the reason the west side boys lost the city more or less.
Posted on 12/22/15 at 1:08 pm to STLhog
quote:
String's naivity of the streets/being blinded by things he did not understand
I don't think Stringer is naive at all. Hell, his conversation with D about a potential snitch in 1.5 shows that he has street smarts.
LINK
Obviously mistakes are made later, but its not because Stringer isn't cut out for the job. He just had bigger plans than being a drug dealer his entire life.
This post was edited on 12/22/15 at 1:09 pm
Posted on 12/23/15 at 9:32 am to reddman
"13 years nd 4 months"
Some of my favorite moments in the series are in these 2 episodes. Lester is my favorite cop and him showing he's not a hump is why. In the first 2 episodes, he just sits there making his doll furniture but listening. I suppose he felt Greggs and McNaulty were serious about doing some police work and he wanted back in the game. Clearly he sees himself in McNaulty. I love how he perks up when they mention Avon was in golden gloves boxing and he just leaves without saying where he's going. Then he comes back with a poster with Avon's picture. I also love the contrast of Lester finding the number on the stash house wall and testing it to confirm it is DeAngelo's pager to the "Rambo" cops down in the projects at 2am of rushing through the house to find Bodie as if he'd be there.
The best is McNaulty and Greggs selling Daniels on cloning the pagers. When Daniels ask if the have a pager number, Lester just lets them sit there for a second before showing he has and confirmed D's number.
Some of my favorite moments in the series are in these 2 episodes. Lester is my favorite cop and him showing he's not a hump is why. In the first 2 episodes, he just sits there making his doll furniture but listening. I suppose he felt Greggs and McNaulty were serious about doing some police work and he wanted back in the game. Clearly he sees himself in McNaulty. I love how he perks up when they mention Avon was in golden gloves boxing and he just leaves without saying where he's going. Then he comes back with a poster with Avon's picture. I also love the contrast of Lester finding the number on the stash house wall and testing it to confirm it is DeAngelo's pager to the "Rambo" cops down in the projects at 2am of rushing through the house to find Bodie as if he'd be there.
The best is McNaulty and Greggs selling Daniels on cloning the pagers. When Daniels ask if the have a pager number, Lester just lets them sit there for a second before showing he has and confirmed D's number.
Posted on 12/23/15 at 9:37 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:
McNaulty
quote:
McNaulty
quote:
McNaulty
McNulty.
Come on, man.
Posted on 12/23/15 at 9:41 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:
and 4 months
Love that scene.
M: How long you been in the pawn shop unit?
L: 13 years and 4 months.
M: 13 years?
L: And 4 months.
And I blew right past the designated homework assignment, as I'm sure most did. Every time I watch this show, I catch something new and I appreciate it more.
This post was edited on 12/23/15 at 9:46 am
Posted on 12/23/15 at 9:45 am to 13SaintTiger
quote:
I think your take on Dee is so far off base. Whoever said String and Dee are alike is pretty spot on. The major difference is experience. I hate to get ahead but we will find out in season 3 that Stringer is the one who isn't a "gangster". I guess your bias and double standard is making me cringe. Dee does what he has to do and does what he is told and he puts up great numbers, you can't ask for much more as a lieutenant or lower. His lack of experience and entitlement (no fault of his own) is why he breaks a few rules, but at the end of the day he is always able to be counted on.
I really don't want to get too far ahead in discussion, but let's just say that I don't think Dee and Stringer are very much alike at all.
And it's not just experience. Sure, De'Angelo knows the system, and is successful at the business in certain instances, but he's far too caring to make it far in the game. He's far too "breakable" (for lack of a better word) to make it up the line and be anything more than running a tower. Sure, he's got some sense, but he's pretty damn experienced.
Stringer, on the other hand, is someone who is always calculating shite, and always looking at the big picture. But he can also focus on the small things as well, such as handling that witness in court. It's not just experience that he has on Dee, it's a firm grasp of the game as a whole, and how it's played. And he's also cold enough and smart enough to not get attached to things, and that's how he has gotten to where he's gotten.
IMO Dee's "success" has way more to do with his relation to Avon than anything else. Not that his relation is his fault, like you said, but at the same time, if he was some random person in the game, he wouldn't have risen to where he was (running a tower) and he sure as hell wouldn't have been so easily forgiven for the mistakes/shite he's pulled.
We can wait until later to get into more detail on this, but I just wanted to respond to this since I didn't get a chance to earlier. And I wanted to say that I stand by dee and String not being too similar.
Posted on 12/23/15 at 9:48 am to CocomoLSU
quote:Agreed.
I don't think Dee and Stringer are very much alike at all.
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