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re: OFFICIAL "The Wire" M/TV Board rewatch thread (current discussion starts ~p. 53)
Posted on 12/23/15 at 4:50 pm to BluegrassBelle
Posted on 12/23/15 at 4:50 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
I think Stinger and Dee's conversation about cutting the dope to make it weaker/to sell more is a good indication of that in Episode 3. While both are successful at what they do at this juncture, Stringer is cold and calculated (we really see this in later episodes in things that go down). Yeah, he's more "business" and may not want the bodies involved, but if it happens it happens. Like when they're discussing the dope fiends and their reaction to the "cut" product. Stringer doesn't give a shite because his "business" is making money. Dee on the other hand is much softer on the inside and sees those dope fiends as people. Look at how shook he got in Episode 2 over the kids of the murdered witness. He wants to be successful (and obviously is given the money he pulls in that scene from the low rises) BUT you can tell from even the first two episodes that he doesn't like the violence of the game. He has a very Utopian view of how the game could be run. Stringer may not want the violence, but it's because he doesn't want the heat that the bodies bring not because he has any kind of "heart" if that makes sense. Similar intentions but two totally different bea
I can get behind your reasoning but I will say that it's easier for Stringer to understand what he is doing and the big picture because he is at the top; compared to Dee who is in the Pit hustling everyday who only sees what he is able to see. Dee doesn't see the big picture because he is young. My initial assertion was defending the thought that Dee isn't cut out for the game, he is. He just isn't cut out to be a "ceo".
1
Posted on 12/23/15 at 5:02 pm to 13SaintTiger
quote:
I can get behind your reasoning but I will say that it's easier for Stringer to understand what he is doing and the big picture because he is at the top; compared to Dee who is in the Pit hustling everyday who only sees what he is able to see. Dee doesn't see the big picture because he is young. My initial assertion was defending the thought that Dee isn't cut out for the game, he is. He just isn't cut out to be a "ceo".
I think even though Stringer sees the big picture because of where he's at, it still takes a cold/calculated motherfricker to do some of the things he does (in future eps) and to be able to look beyond the "pawns" in the game. Dee, no matter how hard he tries, seems unable to do that. He has too much of a conscience that keeps him from being a man like Stringer. Could he continue to run the Pit and be successful? Maybe. But I don't know that being able to run some low level ops means he is necessarily cut out for the game. Say that the boys in the Pit run up on some opposition that starts cutting guys like Bodie, Wallace, Poot down while Dee is running the show? I could easily see him wanting to step away because he can't handle that connection to the bodies.
Posted on 12/23/15 at 5:15 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
But I don't know that being able to run some low level ops means he is necessarily cut out for the game.
You don't have to be a boss, a soldier, smart, be cold, or even calculated to be in the game. You just have to be able to play your role and everyone has their role. Maybe I'm just having a hard time articulating that Dee fits his role well as a lieutenant. Avon or Stringer tells him to do something, he does it and sometimes exceeds it. Does he screw up? Yea, so what, everyone in the game screws up and everyone suffers the consequences of their mistakes. That doesn't mean he isn't cut out for it because regardless of who his kin is, if he wasn't cut out for it he wouldn't have made it this far. The game doesn't care about who your kin is. We see that every character in the game is different, some fill their roles better than others. This question requires some forethought so I ask that you just think about it: would you rather have cheese or dee as a lieutenant if you were running the show?
This post was edited on 12/23/15 at 5:17 pm
Posted on 12/23/15 at 5:27 pm to CocomoLSU
quote:
We need to do better protecting first-time watchers...as much as we can at least.
Agreed. Plenty of time to discuss upcoming things as they come up.
Either way, some random thoughts on Ep 3 and Ep 4:
- Lester Freamon is definitely one of my favorite characters. I love the pager number mic drop he sneaks in there. He's just so damn smooth and "natural police". And I absolutely fell in love with Michael K. Williams as an actor as Omar in this series as well. VICE did a great interview with the real life Omar back in 2009, it's a little spoilery since he notes how spot on the Omar portrayal was to what he did IRL. But a very good interview.
- The scene where Bubs is dressing down Sydnor to make him look more like a dope fiend is an underrated scene.
- I also love the scene where they're all trying to move that damn desk with Lester just watching.
- The chess scene in Episode 3 is where I initially got hooked watching The Wire. It was obviously different than any police procedural I had seen up to that point (I missed it in the initial run and watched it a couple years later FWIW). And it had piqued my interest, but until that particular scene I really didn't get sucked in.
- God love Bodie, but he had that arse whooping coming. I love some early Bodie who in one scene shows how sharp he is (catching Omar's name, skipping out on juvie by rolling on through with the mop bucket) and punches a damn cop in front of a ton of other cops.
- The "frick" scene is a classic. Period. No debating this.
- "It's a thin line between Heaven and here".
- Herc's sitdown with Bodie's Grandma (and the school scenes in a later season) always authenticates things for me with the show. When I worked in truancy for a PLA (persistently low achieving school) in an inner-city for about 8 years, I did a ton of home visits and there were more than a few that went down like that conversation. Grandma raising a kid on her own because her daughter/son got caught up in drugs/gangs/etc. It's just all kinds of fricked up.
- Poor McNulty chasing that Kima pussy.
Just out of curiosity, has anyone here read the books that served as some source material for the show ( Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets by David Simon and The Corner)? If so are they worth the read? TIA.
Posted on 12/23/15 at 5:33 pm to 13SaintTiger
quote:
You don't have to be a boss, a soldier, smart, be cold, or even calculated to be in the game. You just have to be able to play your role and everyone has their role. Maybe I'm just having a hard time articulating that Dee fits his role well as a lieutenant. Avon or Stringer tells him to do something, he does it and sometimes exceeds it. Does he screw up? Yea, so what, everyone in the game screws up and everyone suffers the consequences of their mistakes. That doesn't mean he isn't cut out for it because regardless of who his kin is, if he wasn't cut out for it he wouldn't have made it this far. The game doesn't care about who your kin is. We see that every character in the game is different, some fill their roles better than others. This question requires some forethought so I ask that you just think about it: would you rather have cheese or dee as a lieutenant if you were running the show?
They both have their pros and cons. If I had to choose, it'd be Dee but largely because (if I'm Avon) he's family and he's fairly loyal. That all said, they both have their drawbacks and Dee's is that I think his foot in the game is short lived because of his conscience. I don't have the issue with him screwing up, like you said it happens. But I think as we progress you see that it becomes harder for him to handle the necessary extra-curriculars of the game.
And the comparison is to Stringer. I still contend they're two totally separate players that have the small connection of not wanting the bodies associated with the game.
Posted on 12/23/15 at 5:39 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
But I think as we progress you see that it becomes harder for him to handle the necessary extra-curriculars of the game
It does become harder, but at the end of the day he mans up and takes care of what he needs to take care of. He is just as loyal to Avon as Avon is to him.
quote:
And the comparison is to Stringer. I still contend they're two totally separate players that have the small connection of not wanting the bodies associated with the game.
My contention is that they both think they are smarter than they actually are.
Posted on 12/23/15 at 5:39 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
- The scene where Bubs is dressing down Sydnor to make him look more like a dope fiend is an underrated scene.
One of my favorite scenes in season 1
This post was edited on 12/23/15 at 5:41 pm
Posted on 12/23/15 at 5:44 pm to 13SaintTiger
quote:
My contention is that they both think they are smarter than they actually are.
I can see that, but you can make that parallel with a lot of the players in The Wire too. Especially on the dope boy side of things.
Posted on 12/24/15 at 6:34 am to BluegrassBelle
quote:
- "It's a thin line between Heaven and here".
I was taken aback by this scene in particular, the first time I watched. This scene with Bubs' punchline is one of the things that elevates The Wire. There is a scene later in the series that is juxtaposed with this one that is likewise a work of art.
quote:
The scene where Bubs is dressing down Sydnor to make him look more like a dope fiend is an underrated scene.
I like this scene as nod to acting. You can dress up or you can wear the role.
And, more within the show, it shows that not just the cops are thinking about this, but that Bubs (and others - the dealers) out there are thinking about it. If they're thinking about it and you're going undercover, you're literally risking your life on your preparation.
Posted on 12/27/15 at 4:18 pm to Ace Midnight
Episode 5
Avon and String paranoid as frick
String educating Dee on the game again, don’t let them eat. And Avon educating Dee that blood is thicker than water.
Pager code is simple yet genius
Johnny got the bug and don’t like that Bubz snitching.
Omar knows all (Bubz is a snitch/ and about Bird killing he working man) and living by the code on the streets
Dee, as usual, isn’t comfortable with the hard core stuff of being in the game
Avon and String paranoid as frick
String educating Dee on the game again, don’t let them eat. And Avon educating Dee that blood is thicker than water.
Pager code is simple yet genius
Johnny got the bug and don’t like that Bubz snitching.
Omar knows all (Bubz is a snitch/ and about Bird killing he working man) and living by the code on the streets
Dee, as usual, isn’t comfortable with the hard core stuff of being in the game
Posted on 12/27/15 at 8:53 pm to LUS Tiger in FL
The pager code is good. Wasn't that based in a true case?
What is Landsmans position. Head of homicide. He reports to Rawls. I get confused on who is boss of what department at times. Mcnulty still working for homicide but reporting to Daniels now?
ETA- Bubbles is a great character.
What is Landsmans position. Head of homicide. He reports to Rawls. I get confused on who is boss of what department at times. Mcnulty still working for homicide but reporting to Daniels now?
ETA- Bubbles is a great character.
This post was edited on 12/27/15 at 8:54 pm
Posted on 12/27/15 at 9:12 pm to Nodust
Rawls run homicide...Landsman is a Sargeant under Rawls and Jimmy reports to Landsman
Jimmy is homicide and has been detailed to Daniel's group, well because of Jimmy
Jimmy is homicide and has been detailed to Daniel's group, well because of Jimmy
Posted on 12/27/15 at 9:13 pm to Nodust
Right now Jay Landsman is just a Sargent in the homicide unit and (Major) Rawls is chief of homocide I think.
Posted on 12/27/15 at 9:21 pm to LUS Tiger in FL
Thanks.
Lester showing his skills.
Lester showing his skills.
Posted on 12/27/15 at 9:45 pm to Nodust
Lester is great police.
Its a shame his talents were completely wasted for 13 years (and four months).
Its a shame his talents were completely wasted for 13 years (and four months).
Posted on 12/28/15 at 2:56 am to CocomoLSU
Hope everyone is enjoying their holidays. Here are my thoughts this week, I'll be back next Sunday with Episodes 5 and 6.
I paid more attention to Polk and Mahone in my rewatch of Episodes 3 and 4. I liked when they get back from their errand to find a picture of Barksdale, and the first thing they say is, “Where are the run sheets?” Then they literally roll aside the bulletin board of the Barksdale organization to get to paperwork. I laughed when Polk lit a cigarette during the raid and also that Mahone is going to take his medical pension and hide his income from porn rentals with his brother-in-law.
I thought Valchek made a hell of an impression for his only appearance in Season 1. So unlikeable. That meeting made more sense when I realized the internal investigations chief was present and standing over everyone, including Deputy Burrell.
It was nice to see Lester start to become a character. He came through with the picture of Barksdale, but more importantly grabbed the phone number off the wall of the stash house. I had to watch his conversation with McNulty in the bar a couple of times, I thought that was sort of hard to follow. I liked that when we first meet Omar he is watching the surveillance van from his own van.
Up to this point, what are we supposed to know about the relationship between the DEA agent and McNulty? I don’t understand why he is helping McNulty with equipment, McNulty is visiting his office, and so on.
I paid more attention to Polk and Mahone in my rewatch of Episodes 3 and 4. I liked when they get back from their errand to find a picture of Barksdale, and the first thing they say is, “Where are the run sheets?” Then they literally roll aside the bulletin board of the Barksdale organization to get to paperwork. I laughed when Polk lit a cigarette during the raid and also that Mahone is going to take his medical pension and hide his income from porn rentals with his brother-in-law.
I thought Valchek made a hell of an impression for his only appearance in Season 1. So unlikeable. That meeting made more sense when I realized the internal investigations chief was present and standing over everyone, including Deputy Burrell.
It was nice to see Lester start to become a character. He came through with the picture of Barksdale, but more importantly grabbed the phone number off the wall of the stash house. I had to watch his conversation with McNulty in the bar a couple of times, I thought that was sort of hard to follow. I liked that when we first meet Omar he is watching the surveillance van from his own van.
Up to this point, what are we supposed to know about the relationship between the DEA agent and McNulty? I don’t understand why he is helping McNulty with equipment, McNulty is visiting his office, and so on.
Posted on 12/28/15 at 6:50 am to TigerattheU
OP is updated. Another couple of great episodes in the books. 
Posted on 12/28/15 at 7:40 am to BluegrassBelle
quote:
I think Stinger and Dee's conversation about cutting the dope to make it weaker/to sell more is a good indication of that in Episode 3. While both are successful at what they do at this juncture, Stringer is cold and calculated (we really see this in later episodes in things that go down). Yeah, he's more "business" and may not want the bodies involved, but if it happens it happens. Like when they're discussing the dope fiends and their reaction to the "cut" product. Stringer doesn't give a shite because his "business" is making money. Dee on the other hand is much softer on the inside and sees those dope fiends as people. Look at how shook he got in Episode 2 over the kids of the murdered witness. He wants to be successful (and obviously is given the money he pulls in that scene from the low rises) BUT you can tell from even the first two episodes that he doesn't like the violence of the game. He has a very Utopian view of how the game could be run. Stringer may not want the violence, but it's because he doesn't want the heat that the bodies bring not because he has any kind of "heart" if that makes sense. Similar intentions but two totally different beasts.
Exactly. It makes perfect sense. Dee has too much humanity to be legit sucecssful in the game, at least long term. He cares to much. And that doesn't mean that Avon or Stinger don't care about things, but they also are able to shut that shite off when need be and handle business to get shite done. Where they don't hesitate to off some random witness to send a message, Dee struggles with the thoughts of that dude's family to the point of almost breaking down and giving information to the cops.
And Stringer is all about the business. That's what's so great about him...it's not just "the money," it's the business in general. And you're right...he is willing to make bodies when necessary, but generally wants to avoid that if possible to avoid the heat. But he's not afraid to make shite happen if it needs to happen.
And there's another great example of this in E5, which I'll get into in a little bit when I get into my comments about the current discussion.
Posted on 12/28/15 at 7:42 am to NOLALGD
quote:
Thanks for starting this thread and doing a wonderful job running it. Can you put the most recent episode watched in the title along with the new discussion page to help us keep track?
There's no room. Plus, it's two episodes per week, not one. That's why the first thing listed in the OP is the current discussion, and then below that is the current watching assignment for the week.
But that's also why I put the page number of appriximately where the current episodes discussion begins in the title.
Posted on 12/28/15 at 7:43 am to TigerattheU
quote:
Up to this point, what are we supposed to know about the relationship between the DEA agent and McNulty? I don’t understand why he is helping McNulty with equipment, McNulty is visiting his office, and so on.
Him and McNulty are just friends, and I always took the collaboration to show the audience how much better funded the FBI is.
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