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Started By
Message
re: New Netflix docu-series "Making a Murderer" (Spoilers)
Posted on 1/20/16 at 11:04 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
Posted on 1/20/16 at 11:04 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
First heard
There is a recorded phone call between Dassey and his Mom where they discuss Avery having molested him and another cousin.
2
Posted on 1/20/16 at 11:06 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
Given that there was other evidence tampering
No, there really isn't. There is no evidence of tampering, there's open ended speculation, and that's it.
Posted on 1/20/16 at 11:14 pm to dpd901
quote:You mean ones bought at novelty stores that breakaway?
He bought cuffs and shackles in the weeks before the crime.
Besides you forgot he has PORN too. quote:OK? Is this some evidence of murder?
He called her twice that day using number blocking features to make the calls and then again without using call blocking after he killed her.
quote:His family's property, and some of the more likely "other" suspects lived on that property too.
His property
quote:Do you mean the gun that was in police custody for months before the bullet was found? The same bullet that just kept getting missed even though it was in plain sight?
Her DNA was found on a bullet that was indisputably ballisticly matched to his gun.
quote:O here we go. The sign of a "critical-thinker." Calling the other side idiots.
It's ridiculous this thread has gone this long and there are still idiots arguing that he didn't actually do it.
Posted on 1/20/16 at 11:19 pm to Vols&Shaft83
quote:So the lab so carelessly allows the seal to be broken, and didn't reseal it? Yet you can speculate on the thoroughness of their security mechanisms?
No, there really isn't. There is no evidence of tampering, there's open ended speculation, and that's it.
Posted on 1/20/16 at 11:21 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
He called her twice that day using number blocking features to make the calls and then again without using call blocking after he killed her.
OK? Is this some evidence of murder?
Now who's being obtuse? He specifically requested Teresa when he called Auto Trader, he called her 3 times, twice blocking his number, he was obsessed with her.
quote:
some of the more likely "other" suspects lived on that property too.
Show me evidence of their involvement and I'll be happy to hear your argument.
Posted on 1/20/16 at 11:22 pm to dpd901
quote:Which is not very reliable after a false confession.
There is a recorded phone call between Dassey and his Mom where they discuss Avery having molested him and another cousin.
BUT what would be especially disturbing is that if they believed Brendan, the police didn't investigate those crimes.
Posted on 1/20/16 at 11:27 pm to Vols&Shaft83
quote:Called her 3 times the day they were set to meet and requested her? Sure fire evidence of obsession (maybe he was). Quite a jump there.
Now who's being obtuse? He specifically requested Teresa when he called Auto Trader, he called her 3 times, twice blocking his number, he was obsessed with her.
quote:AND THIS IS THE PROBLEM. The police didn't thoroughly investigate other possibilites and the defense was disallowed to present other possibilites either.
Show me evidence of their involvement and I'll be happy to hear your argument
It's the same tunnel-vision investigation that led to his wrongful conviction in 1985, yet people are ignoring that history. Not to mention, it's the same thing that has happened time and time again which had led to wrongful convictions.
Is it too much to ask that the state do a thorough job?
Posted on 1/21/16 at 12:21 am to buckeye_vol
Posted on 1/21/16 at 1:38 am to pioneerbasketball
This has been a long thread and people are passionate about what they perceive from the doc.
But as was said earlier probably on the first or second pages...
Regardless if he is guilty, nobody in America should be convicted of a crime based on this evidence.
That's something all Americans should return to fight for - a high standard of proof and an honest non-combative police force.
We shouldn't just bury our heads in the sand and accept anything less than a first class criminal justice system...and make them prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.
Beyond a reasonable doubt...not just, I think he maybe did it.
I hope this doc opens eyes to how flawed our cops are and criminal justice system...and the Innocence Project has been proving that for awhile...in their good work to exonerate people, reform corrupt Counties and help to provide a return to an accountability to our elected civil servants.
But as was said earlier probably on the first or second pages...
Regardless if he is guilty, nobody in America should be convicted of a crime based on this evidence.
That's something all Americans should return to fight for - a high standard of proof and an honest non-combative police force.
We shouldn't just bury our heads in the sand and accept anything less than a first class criminal justice system...and make them prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.
Beyond a reasonable doubt...not just, I think he maybe did it.
I hope this doc opens eyes to how flawed our cops are and criminal justice system...and the Innocence Project has been proving that for awhile...in their good work to exonerate people, reform corrupt Counties and help to provide a return to an accountability to our elected civil servants.
Posted on 1/21/16 at 2:19 am to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
pick a team killz.
Posted on 1/21/16 at 3:07 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
And he still lost. And he lost post-conviction. And at the court of appeals. And at the Wisconsin Supreme Court. So ALL these courts were in on the fix? Every single one of them? They all knew what had gone on before.
All those courts denied multiple appeals of his 1985 conviction too. Let's not act like it is surprising he lost his appeals.
quote:
There is a recorded phone call between Dassey and his Mom where they discuss Avery having molested him and another cousin.
Was he interviewed by detectives that day? Did they suggest he tell his mom that? That is what happened when he told his mom over the phone that he had helped Steven.
quote:
Her car was found on his property with his non blood DNA found on it.
The tech that found that DNA on her car also admitted he had handled Steven's DNA prior to checking the car and did not change gloves.
quote:
Maybe the cops planted evidence, maybe they railroaded Dassey, but if you're honestly gonna argue that Avery is innocent of the crime, I'm seriously gonna question your critical thinking skills.
I have no idea if Steven committed the crime. However, based on how the evidence was found and hadled by authorities, I do not trust it. No one should be found guilty of a crime when law enforcement creates as much doubt in a case as Manitowoc did.
Posted on 1/21/16 at 5:17 am to RedMustang
My wishy-washy take: Is Avery guilty? Probably. Was evidence planted? Possibly. Would I have voted to convict? Not sure. Is Dassey guilty? Possibly. Would I have voted to convict? No, not based on his confessions alone.
Buting didn't know how Vacutainers work and he jumped to conclusions. At the time, I didn't know either, and I yummed it up, just like the filmmakers intended. ("Game on.") Still, a syringe is not the only way someone could have swiped Avery's blood from the vial. Don't remember if this was brought up on the show, but I noticed this exchange between Buting and the FBI guy while skimming over a couple of the trial transcripts. From day 17:
quote:
Then why was the seal on the container broken and taped shut?
Buting didn't know how Vacutainers work and he jumped to conclusions. At the time, I didn't know either, and I yummed it up, just like the filmmakers intended. ("Game on."
) Still, a syringe is not the only way someone could have swiped Avery's blood from the vial. Don't remember if this was brought up on the show, but I noticed this exchange between Buting and the FBI guy while skimming over a couple of the trial transcripts. From day 17: quote:
BUTING. Let me ask you, when you did open up the vial, or the packaging, and found the purple vial of blood that said -- or that was reported to you to be Steven Avery's, did it appear to you that the vial had been clearly opened at some time?
LEBEAU. Yes, it did.
BUTING. Okay. And is that, in part, because around the edge, as I have zoomed in on this exhibit of the stopper, there appears to be some red blood that has actually seeped in onto the stopper itself?
LEBEAU. That's exactly right, yes.
BUTING. Okay. And that's a clear sign that at some point the top had been opened, right?
LEBEAU. Yes, it is.
BUTING. All right. Your opinions that you expressed today are to a reasonable degree of scientific certainty, right?
LEBEAU. Yes.
BUTING. And just as you would do in any other case where you are expressing an opinion to a jury, correct, as an expert?
LEBEAU. Yes, based on the science, yes.
Posted on 1/21/16 at 5:35 am to Vols&Shaft83
quote:
No, not elsewhere. That supposed pelvic bone didn't belong to her, and very likely didn't even belong to a human.
Yes, elsewhere. It wasn't confirmed thanks to an incomplete investigation. It didn't fit their story, so they didn't pursue it, just like several other key pieces of evidence. It belonged to someone. If it wasn't hers, I'd find the lack of pursuit even more troubling.
quote:
[Strang] There was a third site, was there not?
Yes.
And this would be the quarry pile.
Yes, sir.
You found in the material from the quarry pile two fragments that appeared to you to be pelvic bone.
[Eisenberg] That's correct.
You suspected them of being human pelvic bone.
That's correct.
The charring and calcined condition that you saw was essentially consistent with the charring and the calcined condition in the Janda burn barrel and behind Steven Avery's garage.
[Eisenberg] That is correct, sir.
Posted on 1/21/16 at 5:36 am to dpd901
quote:
There is a recorded phone call between Dassey and his Mom where they discuss Avery having molested him and another cousin.
There are also recorded phone calls between them where he says he did and did not do anything. Where does this statement fit in?
Posted on 1/21/16 at 7:08 am to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
Regardless if he is guilty, nobody in America should be convicted of a crime based on this evidence.
You have to believe that all evidence is somehow tainted to make this claim. There is more than enough to implicate and convict him, even if you go on just the evidence that couldn't have been planted by the police. I get the outrage, but I really believe this guy shouldn't be the rally point for police reform.
You can't deny that he is in jail justly right now. He is guilty of the gun charge. That is his 4th felony (not including his numerous other run ins with the law). When/If he is released, he is going to be re-arrested for the other pending cases against him. He is right where he belongs and is going to end up regardless.
Posted on 1/21/16 at 7:26 am to brmark70816
quote:
You have to believe that all evidence is somehow tainted to make this claim.
No, you really don't. The evidence points to their property, but everything that points directly at him is questionable at best.
quote:
There is more than enough to implicate and convict him, even if you go on just the evidence that couldn't have been planted by the police.
Like what? There's a enough for you to maybe form an opinion, but we shouldn't lock people up for life because of random opinions.
quote:
When/If he is released, he is going to be re-arrested for the other pending cases against him. He is right where he belongs and is going to end up regardless.
That's all fine, but that isn't how our system is supposed to work. Anyone that is honestly fine with it has no business discussing our criminal justice system.
Posted on 1/21/16 at 7:28 am to brmark70816
quote:If we disregard the key (very likely planted), the bullet (probably planted), and his blood (maybe planted), you still think there is enough evidence to prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt? Wow.
There is more than enough to implicate and convict him, even if you go on just the evidence that couldn't have been planted by the police.
quote:This is the same prevailing attitude that perpetuates the problems in the justice system. The end justifies the means.
He is right where he belongs and is going to end up regardless.
This post was edited on 1/21/16 at 7:31 am
Posted on 1/21/16 at 8:19 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
There is more than enough to implicate and convict him, even if you go on just the evidence that couldn't have been planted by the police.
If any piece of evidence is planted, how would one believe anything presented by the prosecution?
Posted on 1/21/16 at 8:26 am to FreddieMac
quote:
If any piece of evidence is planted, how would one believe anything presented by the prosecution?
And if there was ANY indisputable proof that evidence was planted, I'd be inclined to agree with you, but there isn't. There's open ended speculation, nothing more.
Posted on 1/21/16 at 8:58 am to Vols&Shaft83
quote:
That's not necessarily true, if they had sheets on the bed, they could have simply thrown the sheets in the bonfire along with the body. Maybe he laid a tarp down, the lack of blood is not evidence of a conspiracy.
You've clearly never cut the throat of a large mammal. Take it from someone who has, there's no way he could've contained the blood to sheets or a tarp. It would've gone right through the sheets and would've run off of a tarp. Blood would've been everywhere, particularly since they would've had to drag or carry her out, and there's no way those idiots could've cleaned it up that well, if they could've cleaned it at all - likely the mattress and the carpet would've had to've been removed completely, which they weren't. He may well have done it, but not in the way his nephew described in his "confession". Somewhere else entirely.
This post was edited on 1/21/16 at 8:59 am
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