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re: New Netflix docu-series "Making a Murderer" (Spoilers)
Posted on 1/20/16 at 10:28 pm to Vols&Shaft83
Posted on 1/20/16 at 10:28 pm to Vols&Shaft83
quote:
You're asserting that a fricking crime lab wouldn't have security cameras?
In Manitowoc County, nothing involving a criminal investigation would surprise me.
2
Posted on 1/20/16 at 10:32 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
No but the lack of blood is a "lack of evidence." I naively thought that evidence was important, especially when trying corroborate an unreliable story.
Lack of her bones would be a lack of evidence.
Lack of her car in the Avery salvage yard would be lack of evidence.
Lack of Avery's blood and sweat/skin DNA on and in the RAV4 would be lack of evidence.
Lack of a bullet from Avery's gun with her blood on it would be a lack of evidence.
But since there isn't a lack of any of those things, there's no lack of evidence.
Posted on 1/20/16 at 10:32 pm to buckeye_vol
This is one of the scariest parts, if true...
"After the trial, I found out...[one juror] was the father of a Manitowoc County Sheriff's deputy," the dismissed juror, Richard Mahler, says. "Another juror, his wife works for the Manitowoc County Clerk's Office."
Defense lawyer didn't do his job during voir dire unless he was out of challenges.
Mahler was ultimately excused from the trial after his daughter got into a car accident, but not before he spent more than four hours deliberating with the jury. Early on, the jurors took a vote: seven innocent, three guilty and two undecided.
Juries don't flip like that unless some shady stuff was going on - this isn't 12 Angry Men. All those people aren't going to sit through a trial (most have their mind made up long before closing arguments) and then be flipped by some grocery-store clerk who thinks he's guilty.
If that was truly the initial vote, then some people didn't do their jobs and some weird shady stuff went on the next day in the jury room.
"After the trial, I found out...[one juror] was the father of a Manitowoc County Sheriff's deputy," the dismissed juror, Richard Mahler, says. "Another juror, his wife works for the Manitowoc County Clerk's Office."
Defense lawyer didn't do his job during voir dire unless he was out of challenges.
Mahler was ultimately excused from the trial after his daughter got into a car accident, but not before he spent more than four hours deliberating with the jury. Early on, the jurors took a vote: seven innocent, three guilty and two undecided.
Juries don't flip like that unless some shady stuff was going on - this isn't 12 Angry Men. All those people aren't going to sit through a trial (most have their mind made up long before closing arguments) and then be flipped by some grocery-store clerk who thinks he's guilty.
If that was truly the initial vote, then some people didn't do their jobs and some weird shady stuff went on the next day in the jury room.
Posted on 1/20/16 at 10:34 pm to Vols&Shaft83
quote:I have no idea what their security measures are. Neither do you.
You're asserting that a fricking crime lab wouldn't have security cameras?
Yet your making an argument as if you know these mechanisms so IT supports your stance. We don't know either way.
Of course, you were arguing earlier for the accuracy of the polygraph so maybe you're just in a weird place today.
This post was edited on 1/20/16 at 10:35 pm
Posted on 1/20/16 at 10:34 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
In Manitowoc County, nothing involving a criminal investigation would surprise me.
I agree with this as well. Typical rural, "good ole boy" system going there. Doesn't mean they're wrong on Avery, but their processes raise lots of questions.
The clerk all but admitted the file was accessible to anyone. Regardless, no one would have given it a second thought that the investigating officer went through the file for something. I've worked at 3 different rural courthouses. The allegation by Avery's team about that is, at the very least, plausible.
I mean, I'm walking/talking proof that you can believe that a defendant is guilty (O.J. Simpson/Steven Avery) AND the cops tried to get a few insurance runs in the middle/late innings while playing outside the rules. Those beliefs are not mutually exclusive.
But it does (and should) shift more burden on the state.
Posted on 1/20/16 at 10:36 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
If that was truly the initial vote, then some people didn't do their jobs and some weird shady stuff went on the next day in the jury room.
I'm going to ask again. How do they know that? Did someone on the jury say that? If we had that kind of knowledge of what was going on in the jury room, wouldn't we know why they decided to convict him? I just don't know how or why that would be disclosed..
Posted on 1/20/16 at 10:37 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
In Manitowoc County, nothing involving a criminal investigation would surprise me.
I've been to forensic labs in 7 different states, including backwards arse West Virginia, and I can assure you that the security at every single one of them is extremely vigilant.
But you're right, any old Joe can just walk into the crime lab in Manitowoc County and handle evidence whenever the frick they please
Posted on 1/20/16 at 10:38 pm to Vols&Shaft83
quote:Don't be obtuse. I was responding to your hypothetical about the lack of blood, WHICH IS a lack of evidence in that case. You can't use some other piece of evidence as evidence for evidence that didn't exist. That's just dishonest.
But since there isn't a lack of any of those things, there's no lack of evidence.
Posted on 1/20/16 at 10:40 pm to brmark70816
quote:
I'm going to ask again. How do they know that? Did someone on the jury say that? If we had that kind of knowledge of what was going on in the jury room, wouldn't we know why they decided to convict him? I just don't know how or why that would be disclosed..
The one juror who was excused an hour into deliberations is the one who told them that.
Posted on 1/20/16 at 10:43 pm to Vols&Shaft83
quote:Yet all that experience and you STILL seemed to incorrectly identify their blood bottling mechanisms.
I've been to forensic labs in 7 different states, including backwards arse West Virginia, and I can assure you that the security at every single one of them is extremely vigilant.
But of course, you should have just called both sides. Clearly they could have used your experience from labs in 7 states. Otherwise, the DA and top defense attorneys had no idea to look for a security tape. Would have saved the FBI time too.
quote:Ahhh yes. That's the argument no one has made.
But you're right, any old Joe can just walk into the crime lab in Manitowoc County and handle evidence whenever the frick they please
This post was edited on 1/20/16 at 10:45 pm
Posted on 1/20/16 at 10:43 pm to Vols&Shaft83
Finished watching. The kid is innocent, I doubt seriously he participated in the crime. Someone in the Avery family did the crime, I am not sure it was Steven, to much reasonable doubt.
Posted on 1/20/16 at 10:48 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
Yet all that experience and you STILL seemed to incorrectly identify their blood bottling mechanisms.
False, the documentary incorrectly identified their blood bottling mechanisms. Hence why the vial was never introduced as evidence in the courtroom.
quote:
Otherwise, the DA and top defense attorneys had no idea to look for a security tape.
Or perhaps they did, and didn't find any evidence of tampering
Posted on 1/20/16 at 10:51 pm to buckeye_vol
I'll be acute...
The guy fricken did it. He's an animal abusing, pedo with a history of sexual misconduct and violence against women.
He bought cuffs and shackles in the weeks before the crime. He called her twice that day using number blocking features to make the calls and then again without using call blocking after he killed her. Her fricken bones were found on his property. Her car was found on his property with his non blood DNA found on it. Her DNA was found on a bullet that was indisputably ballisticly matched to his gun. Her PDA and camera were found in a burn barrel on his property.
Maybe the cops planted evidence, maybe they railroaded Dassey, but if you're honestly gonna argue that Avery is innocent of the crime, I'm seriously gonna question your critical thinking skills. It's ridiculous this thread has gone this long and there are still idiots arguing that he didn't actually do it.
The guy fricken did it. He's an animal abusing, pedo with a history of sexual misconduct and violence against women.
He bought cuffs and shackles in the weeks before the crime. He called her twice that day using number blocking features to make the calls and then again without using call blocking after he killed her. Her fricken bones were found on his property. Her car was found on his property with his non blood DNA found on it. Her DNA was found on a bullet that was indisputably ballisticly matched to his gun. Her PDA and camera were found in a burn barrel on his property.
Maybe the cops planted evidence, maybe they railroaded Dassey, but if you're honestly gonna argue that Avery is innocent of the crime, I'm seriously gonna question your critical thinking skills. It's ridiculous this thread has gone this long and there are still idiots arguing that he didn't actually do it.
Posted on 1/20/16 at 10:52 pm to Vols&Shaft83
quote:
But you're right, any old Joe can just walk into the crime lab in Manitowoc County and handle evidence whenever the frick they please
An investigating officer isn't "any old Joe".
Posted on 1/20/16 at 10:57 pm to dpd901
quote:
The guy fricken did it.
Maybe. Even probably.
quote:
pedo
First heard.
quote:
He bought cuffs and shackles in the weeks before the crime.
So did tens of thousands of others, and they supposedly were the novelty kind with quick releases.
quote:
He called her twice that day using number blocking features to make the calls
So?
quote:
Her fricken bones were found on his property.
And elsewhere.
quote:
Her DNA was found on a bullet that was indisputably ballisticly matched to his gun.
But nowhere else on the property.
Posted on 1/20/16 at 10:58 pm to dpd901
quote:
He called her twice that day using number blocking features to make the calls and then again without using call blocking after he killed her.
Supposedly he left a message that was saying that she didn't show up and inquiring about where she was (the unblocked call). It was supposed to be him building an alibi. It goes along with him saying that he didn't see her that day. He changed his story later on, but never gave a statement. 10 hour documentary and I still don't remember him giving his version of what happened that day. Plus he refused to testify..
Posted on 1/20/16 at 11:00 pm to brmark70816
quote:
Supposedly he left a message that was saying that she didn't show up and inquiring about where she was (the unblocked call). It was supposed to be him building an alibi. It goes along with him saying that he didn't see her that day.
And what happened to this supposed message?
Posted on 1/20/16 at 11:01 pm to Vols&Shaft83
quote:Link?
False, the documentary incorrectly identified their blood bottling mechanisms.
quote:Was it not introduced? Besides even assuming the hole should be there, couldn't a person still extract the blood? Given that there was other evidence tampering, it would be akin to saying "I couldn't have stolen the TV because the door was already open."
Hence why the vial was never introduced as evidence in the courtroom.
quote:So "perhaps" they found major evidence that discredited the one alternative the defense was allowed to argue (that should be a bigger story), but they just decide to keep it interesting, and NOT present it?
Or perhaps they did
Posted on 1/20/16 at 11:03 pm to dpd901
quote:Ummm you're the guy that made that absurd "false-dichotomy" about your "observations."
I'm serious gonna question your critical thinking skills
Posted on 1/20/16 at 11:04 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Her fricken bones were found on his property.
And elsewhere.
No, not elsewhere. That supposed pelvic bone didn't belong to her, and very likely didn't even belong to a human.
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