re: New Netflix docu-series "Making a Murderer" (Spoilers)

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Forgive me for finding Jodi to be about as reliable as the dirty police.

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And weighing her statements is fair enough, but some of you documentary watchers seem to dismiss ALL evidence pointing to his guilt and are simply shocked that he was prosecuted and jailed for this.

I'm willing to be as fair, open-minded and objective as possible. I've gone so far as to say it was almost impossible for the authorities to convict him of anything because of their past history - that was a lot to overcome. I think their treatment of Brendan was deplorable. I think Brendan's own attorney and investigator were even worse than the cops - but, at the end of the day, Steven got his day in court, with quite competent counsel.

And he still lost. And he lost post-conviction. And at the court of appeals. And at the Wisconsin Supreme Court. So ALL these courts were in on the fix? Every single one of them? They all knew what had gone on before.

It is fair to say they got him the first time, too, but we must concede that whatever corruption in that prosecution appears to have been concentrated at the local level. I could be wrong, but that's the way I assess that. In the Halbach case, they took their best shot at the state's case and lost. Based on what I saw presented (again, heavily biased towards Steven), I would have voted to acquit. The jury thought differently.

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He's way sketchier.

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He is not "way sketchier" than either his brother or his brother in law (Scott Tadych). Tadych actually has a documented (and prosecuted) history of violence against women. The brother I believe has an actual conviction on a sex crime with a minor or something like that.

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She had complained to her bosses, specifically about him. There is something more than the documentary shows.

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You need to be careful about how you've blown this up. Yes, the gal once mentioned she was skeeved when Avery answered the door in a towel and she told her friend. They said it was an "eww" kind of thing - not terrifying. Sorry, I don't find that remarkable in the least. The guy wore jorts and a stained t-shirt for a TV-opp with the governor on a day that was literally dedicated to him.

He called her multiple times. OK. And?

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Just not seeing motive for the others.

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I never have in my entire life understood the push to find "motive". What's the "motive" of a crazy killer? Perhaps Tadych saw a defenseless woman on the property, followed her, raped her and killed her for sport. The "motive" is that he's a sick frick. But even accepting your construct, what's his motive for murder?

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So - I'm comfortable enough to say he did it, but probably not comfortable enough to have voted to convict at the criminal trial

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I'm comfortable enough to say that there were very clear reasonable doubts. And I'm comfortable enough to say that sure, maybe he did it.

But one thing we know with absolute certainty: nothing even vaguely approximating the methods or timeline laid out by the prosecution happened.

I personally think the only reason you say he did it is a confirmation bias based on the fact that he was put forward for you to think that.

You are the best poster on any of the boards and I really appreciate your skepticism, but I think it's a bit misguided on this one.

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And he still lost. And he lost post-conviction. And at the court of appeals. And at the Wisconsin Supreme Court. So ALL these courts were in on the fix? Every single one of them? They all knew was had gone on before.

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Did you not notice the part when the same judge presided over an appeal of his own case?

No, the courts were not in on the "fix". The system has a massive internal inertia and status quo bias. All you have to know to realize that is that the kid wasn't granted any kind of relief even after a new judge witnessed multiple coerced confessions and listened to his "defense" attorney admit that he was working literally in service of the prosecution.

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Then why was the seal on the container broken and taped shut?

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Why wasn't that introduced in court?


Why aren't there security tapes showing Lenk breaking into the evidence locker?

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Why wasn't that introduced in court?

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Are you sure that they didn't? Otherwise, the whole FBI expert is rebutting a non-existent argument.

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Why aren't there security tapes showing Lenk breaking into the evidence locker?

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Maybe they don't have inside security? Maybe they overwrite the tapes after an extended period of time? While we are at it, why isn't there a security tape of them putting the blood into the vial?????

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They don't use a hypodermic needle to extract blood from the vial.

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What does that have to do with the possibility that it was illegally extracted?

I'm only on episode 4 but my blood is boiling with the way they are treating this 16 year old kid. I would love to smack the frick out of his so called attorney. What a smug little bitch. It's obvious to anyone how slow the 16 year old is and they are just taking advantage of him. It really broke my heart when he told his mom that he was stupid. I truly feel sorry for the kid. To bad his mom can't afford a good attorney.

During his forced confession the kid said he cut the woman's throat in the bedroom. Well if that is the case then where in the hell is all the traces of blood. They would have def found some blood no matter how small in that little trailer. No way they could have cleaned it up entirely. I know I'm rambling but I just had to vent.

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I'm comfortable enough to say that there were very clear reasonable doubts.

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I've been clear on this point at every opportunity - I agree with your statement here 100%. I cannot see with the level of reasonable doubt raised by the defense that I could vote to convict and live with myself.

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I personally think the only reason you say he did it is a confirmation bias based on the fact that he was put forward for you to think that.

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No. I ended up watching this at the prodding of my son. He's up in arms about this, but having been inside the criminal justice system for ~20 years, I'm more jaded.

I once did the indigent defender board interviews for a rural parish in Louisiana. You want to know a shocking little bit of trivia? I did dozens of those interviews in a year's time. Not a single one of them every held an honest paying job. Not a single one.

My son wanted my take, particularly my assessment of Brendan's lawyer and Avery's lawyers in the Halbach trial. Give or take, I'm roughly of Avery's generation (we could have gone to HS together) and my son is within a few months in age of Brendan. Collectively, he and I have about 120 IQ points on the 2 of them, but I digress.

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I really appreciate your skepticism, but I think it's a bit misguided on this one.

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Maybe so. If I have a vice in this case analysis, it is one of being jaded, not biased against Avery. I felt for the guy on the first one. I like his poor little dumb, inbred parents (all the Averys and Dassey's look alike, even the married couples and outsiders - it's shocking, startling even). I feel really bad for Brendan. I backed off my gut check that he was involved.

I'm more or less back to thinking he said whatever they wanted him to say. On the other hand, Avery is clearly a manipulator and coerces family members into doing/saying whatever he wants - despite a subaverage general intelligence, he is clever and cunning to a degree that belies this cognitive deficit.

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During his forced confession the kid said he cut the woman's throat in the bedroom. Well if that is the case then where in the hell is all the traces of blood. They would have def found some blood no matter how small in that little trailer. No way they could have cleaned it up entirely. I know I'm rambling but I just had to vent.

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That's not necessarily true, if they had sheets on the bed, they could have simply thrown the sheets in the bonfire along with the body. Maybe he laid a tarp down, the lack of blood is not evidence of a conspiracy.

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Maybe he laid a tarp down, the lack of blood is not evidence of a conspiracy.

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No but the lack of blood is a "lack of evidence." I naively thought that evidence was important, especially when trying corroborate an unreliable story.