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Started By
Message
re: New Netflix docu-series "Making a Murderer" (Spoilers)
Posted on 1/4/16 at 10:24 pm to 13SaintTiger
Posted on 1/4/16 at 10:24 pm to 13SaintTiger
quote:
No it isn't, quit spewing lies. The lab tech said specifically they don't fill tubes like that.
Jesus, it's the same argument over and over. Why can't people just look it up online. It's called a f'n Vacutainer. Here is the wiki link again for like the 4th time (LINK That is how a blood draw is done. I didn't know it either. But I took 2 minutes and looked it up. Direct from the page..
"The vein is first punctured with the hypodermic needle which is carried in a translucent plastic holder. The needle is double ended, the second shorter needle being shrouded for safety by the holder. When a Vacutainer test tube is pushed down into the holder, its rubber cap is pierced by the second needle and the pressure difference between the blood volume and the vacuum in the tube forces blood through the needle and into the tube. The filled tube is then removed and another can be inserted and filled the same way. It is important to remove the tube before withdrawing the needle, as there may still be some suction left, causing pain upon withdrawal."
There, can we finally move on from that? The hole in the tube doesn't mean anything. The police could still remove the top and take out the blood. So it doesn't even hurt/help either side. It was just a dumb scene that people are just fixated on. Then they come on here and make asses of themselves trying to make a point.
2
Posted on 1/4/16 at 10:43 pm to brmark70816
quote:
The jury is a big question mark in the latter half of the series. The doc informs viewers that, at the start of deliberations, seven people believed Avery was innocent. But in the end, three jurors were able to sway the collective into guilty votes. “How did seven people get swayed?” Demos wondered aloud. “The one person who talks about what was going on [an excused juror named Richard Mahler] says that the three who said guilty refused to deliberate. And if they weren’t going to change their minds, what could the other seven do?”
Both Demos and Ricciardi feel the verdict itself was confusing: Avery was found guilty of murder but rendered innocent for mutilating the body. “What story are they telling about what happened to this woman?” Ricciardi said, adding that she’s long viewed it as a compromise between the jurors — a theory she’s been unable to prove because the jurors “entered into a pact, essentially, and would not speak publicly about their process.”
Posted on 1/4/16 at 10:49 pm to I B Freeman
quote:
The defense lawyers were good but when you look at the facts it is crazy to think anyone else killed the lady.
What facts?
Posted on 1/4/16 at 10:55 pm to brmark70816
quote:
Avery's lawyers confirmed with lab corp that they do not use the top and hole like that in criminal cases which is different than pure healthcare.
There are many types of ways to draw and store blood and you are using one method.
Regardless, generally the hole is invisible-like poking a needle through a knit fabric almost-if that makes sense.
Whatever made that whole seems to be a big bigger gauge.
Additionally, weren't there two evidence stickers that were broken on the side package, and it was taped together with regular tape? Either way, his blood was not secured.
This post was edited on 1/4/16 at 10:56 pm
Posted on 1/5/16 at 2:28 am to BamaChick
quote:
It's a real shame that Avery had to settle his civil suit for only $400,000
Somebody may have answered this, I am pretty sure that wasn't his civil suit, that was money he received for his wrongful conviction. His civil suit got dismissed once he got arrested.
Posted on 1/5/16 at 6:33 am to tigermike5
quote:
Somebody may have answered this, I am pretty sure that wasn't his civil suit, that was money he received for his wrongful conviction. His civil suit got dismissed once he got arrested.
He settled with the city/county for 400k. I'm not sure if he had any other suits that got dismissed.
The 36M figure always seemed kind of crazy to me. He was already going to jail and only spent 12 years in prison for the additional time he spent. I looked it up and the largest award ever was only 20M (LINK I would doubt Avery would even get that much as this other guy was in prison for 20 years, it was last year (Avery's case was 10 years ago), the guy was prosecuted with raping a child and the other guy settled in Illinois which I'm guessing has more money than a small town/county in Wisconsin.
This post was edited on 1/5/16 at 6:35 am
Posted on 1/5/16 at 7:55 am to brmark70816
quote:
The 36M figure always seemed kind of crazy to me. He was already going to jail and only spent 12 years in prison for the additional time he spent. I looked it up and the largest award ever was only 20M (LINK /). I would doubt Avery would even get that much as this other guy was in prison for 20 years, it was last year (Avery's case was 10 years ago), the guy was prosecuted with raping a child and the other guy settled in Illinois which I'm guessing has more money than a small town/county in Wisconsin.
Of course the county didn't have the money, but the county wouldnot have been on the hook to pay that money, the sheriff's department would have been since the county insurance backed out. All the more reason for Avery to be set up.
Posted on 1/5/16 at 7:57 am to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
the jurors “entered into a pact, essentially, and would not speak publicly about their process
Surprised at least 1 of these jurors isn't tempted to cash in on a book deal about how the deliberations went down
Posted on 1/5/16 at 9:13 am to Goldrush25
quote:
Still doesn't explain when and why Lenk accessed it, though it didn't really matter once the "new test" that the FBI developed concluded that there was no EDTA in the blood sample found in the car.
I think I missed this. So the FBI ruled it wasn't from the "same" blood sample?
As the defense lawyers pretty much predicted right?
Posted on 1/5/16 at 9:57 am to 13SaintTiger
What facts?? The woman was burned on their property, her car was on their property, Avery's blood was in her car, his nephew--though a simpleton--said he helped and a jury was convinced that he did, Avery had weirdly appeared to the lady dressed only in towel on a previous visit, he insisted she make the pictures and on and on.
Avery is some kind of deviant psychopath that burns cats, assaults women including his cousin and lies.
The only reason there is sympathy for Avery is because of his wrongful conviction in the rape case.
Does anyone believe the cops murdered this woman to set up Avery?
He had good defense attorneys who did their job in presenting a defense. They created a far fetched "I was framed defense" with not a single witness, a single explanation of who did commit murder, or even a single alibi for their defendant. It was masterful BUT it did not convince a jury the man was innocent NOR did any defense of his nephew convince a jury he was innocent.
Avery is some kind of deviant psychopath that burns cats, assaults women including his cousin and lies.
The only reason there is sympathy for Avery is because of his wrongful conviction in the rape case.
Does anyone believe the cops murdered this woman to set up Avery?
He had good defense attorneys who did their job in presenting a defense. They created a far fetched "I was framed defense" with not a single witness, a single explanation of who did commit murder, or even a single alibi for their defendant. It was masterful BUT it did not convince a jury the man was innocent NOR did any defense of his nephew convince a jury he was innocent.
This post was edited on 1/5/16 at 9:58 am
Posted on 1/5/16 at 10:01 am to STLhog
quote:
I think I missed this. So the FBI ruled it wasn't from the "same" blood sample?
As the defense lawyers pretty much predicted right?
No defense wanted to say the blood in the car was blood from the evidence sample. The FBI test says there was no preservative, EDTA, found in the blood in the car so it could not have been blood from the evidence sample. It was fresh blood of Avery.
Posted on 1/5/16 at 10:23 am to I B Freeman
Just finished Ep 4. Does is get crazier?
Posted on 1/5/16 at 10:29 am to I B Freeman
quote:
The woman was burned on their property
Speculation. No one knows where the body was burned or did you just not listen to the expert witness?
quote:
her car was on their property
Theresa drove to their property, doesn't mean SA killed her.
quote:
Avery's blood was in her car
While others with motive had access to a tampered with blood sample. Once again, doesn't mean he killed her.
quote:
his nephew--though a simpleton--said he helped
When coerced, but you can leave that out if you want because his nephew also said he made everything up.
quote:
Avery had weirdly appeared to the lady dressed only in towel on a previous visit,
Avery showed up to HIS door in a towel. What is weird about that? What does that have to do with killing Theresa?
quote:
he insisted she make the pictures
You don't know how this went down because you were not there and it isn't stated as fact so how is this a fact?
quote:
Avery is some kind of deviant psychopath that burns cats, assaults women including his cousin and lies.
Although this doesn't have anything to do with Theresa, what did he lie about? Avery was also the victim of a wrongful conviction but you can leave that out if you want too.
quote:
The only reason there is sympathy for Avery is because of his wrongful conviction in the rape case
You are completely disregarding the blatant disregard for morality and legal standards by the prosecution.
quote:
Does anyone believe the cops murdered this woman to set up Avery?
They were on the hook for $39million and since you like to bring up the past so much, the cops framed him for a rape.
quote:
He had good defense attorneys who did their job in presenting a defense. They created a far fetched "I was framed defense" with not a single witness, a single explanation of who did commit murder, or even a single alibi for their defendant. It was masterful BUT it did not convince a jury the man was innocent NOR did any defense of his nephew convince a jury he was innocent.
Obtuse isn't even the word. It will be telling what comes of this in the next few years and we can revisit this.
This post was edited on 1/5/16 at 10:36 am
Posted on 1/5/16 at 10:31 am to I B Freeman
quote:
No defense wanted to say the blood in the car was blood from the evidence sample. The FBI test says there was no preservative, EDTA, found in the blood in the car so it could not have been blood from the evidence sample. It was fresh blood of Avery.
The FBI testing was convoluted and a testing expert explicitly said that no one can draw a conclusion where the blood came from. Just because the test didn't detect EDTA, doesn't mean it wasn't there.
Posted on 1/5/16 at 3:03 pm to 13SaintTiger
quote:
ManitowocSheriffDept ?@ManitowocSD 12h12 hours ago
Shout out to our boi Lt. Lenk for organizing this year's #ManitowocCounty blood drive! It's criminal how good that guy is at finding donors!
I
Posted on 1/5/16 at 3:46 pm to Will Munny
quote:
Surprised at least 1 of these jurors isn't tempted to cash in on a book deal about how the deliberations went down
One has now spoken out today - anonymously to the filmmakers and claims they think Avery was framed and the jurors were "afraid for their safety", and deliberately rendered two contradictory verdicts in the hopes that an appeals court would overturn and order a new trial, and actually "traded" votes on charges.
LINK
This post was edited on 1/5/16 at 3:53 pm
Posted on 1/5/16 at 4:21 pm to BamaChick
LINK
quote:
In the months leading up to Halbach’s disappearance, Avery had called Auto Trader several times, always specifically requesting Halbach to come out to his family’s junkyard and take photos.
Why does everyone assume he called because he had a secret sexual deviant idea in his head?
What about him wanting her because she was someone he could trust, had been there, and wasn't the type to poke around. Steven was under a HUGE microscope when he got out of prison, and considering his mental capacity, its not entirely out of the question he would be protective of who went in and went out of Avery Auto. It actually seems like a rational response after what he had gone through.
Also, when she called him in the doc, her message said CALL HER BACK. So he did, and she didnt answer, and she had said she would be there, so he called again. How is that not a reasonable response?
I assume you have to think he's guilty to accept the circumstantial evidence.
quote:
On the day that Halbach went missing, Avery had called her three times, twice from a *67 number to hide his identity.
Again, protective of privacy. I have been using *67 since I was in junior high....why is it suddenly suspicious now? Who confirmed this is in fact what he did? He had every reason in the world after being in prison 18 years for something he didnt do to be suspicious of who was poking around.
quote:
Halbach had complained to her boss that she didn’t want to visit Avery’s trailer again, because once when she did, he answered the door wearing only a towel.
Where is this boss? Who is he? Did he submit a written statement that was signed off on? If she didnt want to visit then why was she going out there again. This seems like a rumor that might have grow from the prosecution and was never confirmed.
quote:
The bullet with Halbach’s DNA on it came from Avery’s gun, which always hung above his bed.
So no one could have picked up that gun and shot it? And it was never established that it was from HIS gun, but a gun LIKE his.
quote:
Avery had purchased handcuffs and leg irons like the ones Brendan Dassey described holding Halbach just three weeks before. Avery said he had bought them to use with his girlfriend, Jodi, with whom he’d had a tumultuous relationship — at one point, he was ordered by police to stay away from her for three days.
-Evidence? Any? I never saw that evidence and its still surrounded in a shroud of secrecy, but it seems to still be brought up quite a bit. How do they not have pictures of any of this? Or receipts? Or statements from others who had seen or used the handcuffs and leg irons? Where the hell can you even get leg irons? Steven goes on the internet and gets these? Who provided these things?
quote:
In Dassey’s illegally obtained statement, Dassey said that he helped Avery move the RAV4 into the junkyard and that Avery had lifted the hood and removed the battery cable. Although this was presented at trial, and even if you do believe that the blood in Halbach’s car was planted by the police, this suggests that there was non-blood DNA evidence on the hood latch, though it was never addressed in this way.
How anyone brings up anything Brandon Dassey said is sad, incredibly, and utterly sad, and obviously they have no clue why it is useless. Maybe these people need a special class on special needs children, or what learning disabilities are.
Posted on 1/5/16 at 4:29 pm to tiggerthetooth
quote:
Again, protective of privacy. I have been using *67 since I was in junior high....why is it suddenly suspicious now?
Was the body of any of the people you called using *67 since junior high found burned on your property which was also the last place anyone ever saw said person?
Posted on 1/5/16 at 4:41 pm to the_watcher
quote:
which was also the last place anyone ever saw said person?
Allegedly
Posted on 1/5/16 at 4:46 pm to 13SaintTiger
quote:
Allegedly
Had a feeling this would be your response. It's not "allegedly" the last confirmed place anyone saw her. Steve Avery's house is the last confirmed place anyone has publicly admitted to seeing Teresa Halbach. Which was confirmed by Steve Avery himself. This is not disputed by anyone, accept apparently 13SaintTiger
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