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Message
re: New Netflix docu-series "Making a Murderer" (Spoilers)
Posted on 12/28/15 at 11:06 am to OnTheBrink
Posted on 12/28/15 at 11:06 am to OnTheBrink
quote:
ETA: And it was early on, but how did they find the vehicle? It was some shady shite if I remember correctly. Like, they searched his property several times, but sent a family member of one of the cops over there who just happened to stumble upon it. I mean, really?
IIRC, the only shady bits was that the exbf had given the lady headed there a camera to film and the amount of time in which they found the car. I don't remember if she was related to anyone involved. In the doc, the lawyers say that they never believed the lady's statement but I didn't really get that anything was up.
4
Posted on 12/28/15 at 11:33 am to hiltacular
Burning a body in an open fire would not, I think, reduce the body to bone shards. Didn't look like there was even a full body among those bones, just enough to make it look good and be able to provide DNA from them.
If they were convicted solely on circumstantial evidence, being there is no physical evidence that could tie the two Gumps to the crime, then a reasonable doubt exists. No fingerprints or blood splatter. Shooting or cutting a person would have blood splurt everywhere, and no way a messy/cluttered place could be sanitized without it being patently obvious... the contents of the garage would have to have had layers of dirt removed in order to clean any DNA from it. Looked like a normal garage to me.
The car is most damning of all. Gave them a renewed reason to go back and plant evidence, the big "ah-ha!". It simply is not logical to kill someone, clean the crime scene yet leave the bones feet from the trailer, half-assed conceal the RAV4 near the front of the wrecker yard, and casually toss the (spare?) key on the desk/floor.
If they were convicted solely on circumstantial evidence, being there is no physical evidence that could tie the two Gumps to the crime, then a reasonable doubt exists. No fingerprints or blood splatter. Shooting or cutting a person would have blood splurt everywhere, and no way a messy/cluttered place could be sanitized without it being patently obvious... the contents of the garage would have to have had layers of dirt removed in order to clean any DNA from it. Looked like a normal garage to me.
The car is most damning of all. Gave them a renewed reason to go back and plant evidence, the big "ah-ha!". It simply is not logical to kill someone, clean the crime scene yet leave the bones feet from the trailer, half-assed conceal the RAV4 near the front of the wrecker yard, and casually toss the (spare?) key on the desk/floor.
Posted on 12/28/15 at 11:37 am to hiltacular
quote:
IIRC, the only shady bits was that the exbf had given the lady headed there a camera to film and the amount of time in which they found the car. I don't remember if she was related to anyone involved. In the doc, the lawyers say that they never believed the lady's statement but I didn't really get that anything was up.
Immediately after that they went into the cop calling in the plates days before it was found. I think they were trying to establish they knew it was in the salvage yard and it was going to be found. No chance Avery did that and left the Rav 4 half assed hidden when he could've used the car crusher that he used the day before.
Posted on 12/28/15 at 11:37 am to hiltacular
I know the lawyer said the thing about using the car crusher. But you just can't crush a car without prepping it and it would have caused alot of attention. You have to drain the fluids, remove the battery, tires, fuel tank, etc.. he couldn't just throw it in it and it vanishes.
This is what I'm talking about with people over reacting to the show. Grabing one line and hammering a point that isn't realistic..
This is what I'm talking about with people over reacting to the show. Grabing one line and hammering a point that isn't realistic..
Posted on 12/28/15 at 11:38 am to Chillini
do we think the search party members were somehow "gotten to" by authorities? Of course it could be coincidental, but the fact that that lady was the only one with a camera and she went directly to the vehicle in a place that massive and found the car in like 15 minutes is just weird.
Seems like if that was the case though she'd have to have been either bribed or threatened pretty seriously to keep quiet.
Seems like if that was the case though she'd have to have been either bribed or threatened pretty seriously to keep quiet.
Posted on 12/28/15 at 11:41 am to brmark70816
He could've had the vehicle in the shop prepping for that and denied anyone access.
Posted on 12/28/15 at 11:43 am to brmark70816
quote:
But you just can't crush a car without prepping it and it would have caused alot of attention. You have to drain the fluids, remove the battery, tires, fuel tank, etc.. he couldn't just throw it in it and it vanishes.
This is what I'm talking about with people over reacting to the show. Grabing one line and hammering a point that isn't realistic..
I get your point but I also think that the car crusher is like reason #100 why this case doesn't make sense.
No one is really hammering home this point. People are pissed off because of much bigger things.
Posted on 12/28/15 at 11:45 am to WG_Dawg
quote:
do we think the search party members were somehow "gotten to" by authorities? Of course it could be coincidental, but the fact that that lady was the only one with a camera and she went directly to the vehicle in a place that massive and found the car in like 15 minutes is just weird.
Seems like if that was the case though she'd have to have been either bribed or threatened pretty seriously to keep quiet.
This theory is a stretch IMO. The bigger the conspiracy/people involved the more it starts to crumble.
I think it made sense for her to have the camera bc she was a going to a sketchy area and a junkyard with thousands of cars. Finding the car so quickly I firmly believe was just good luck.
Posted on 12/28/15 at 11:45 am to brmark70816
quote:
But you just can't crush a car without prepping it and it would have caused alot of attention. You have to drain the fluids, remove the battery, tires, fuel tank, etc.. he couldn't just throw it in it and it vanishes.
Really? You mean he really could not do this? As if Avery would take the time to check off boxes before he would have placed a crime scene car in a crusher
In order to place blame on Avery, the car had to be planted on the site. Doesn't look like the most secure facility in the world, and easy enough to drag or drive the RAV4 to that resting location. If someone was wanting to get away with all DNA evidence after burning the body, they would have burned the car as well.
Posted on 12/28/15 at 11:45 am to Chillini
It would have caused attention and somebody would have seen. You think his dad and uncle just let people strip and crush cars without them knowing? Its an involved process and there would be witnesses, lots of them. I just think its a bogus debate point and not something he could have done.
Posted on 12/28/15 at 11:50 am to brmark70816
Putting potentially crushing the RAV4 aside, Avery's half-arse attempt at concealing it compared to shooting her in a cluttered garage and completely wiping any form of DNA from the act is a gigantic red flag.
This post was edited on 12/28/15 at 11:51 am
Posted on 12/28/15 at 11:50 am to TechBullDawg
If you don't remove the fuel tank it might explode. Same with some of the other fluids. The tires as well. A car crusher is very loud. The whole family lives on the property and I'm sure they would have known. Plus they don't just randomly destroy vehicles, they are their livelihood. It's not an everyday thing. See what i mean?
Posted on 12/28/15 at 12:27 pm to brmark70816
quote:
It would have caused attention and somebody would have seen.
Well, so would tying a woman up, raping her, stabbing her, shooting her 11 times, and then burning her body in a big arse bonfire but no one else but Brendan saw that either.
Seems like prepping and crushing a car would be easy peasy after "getting away" with the Halbach murder.
Posted on 12/28/15 at 12:47 pm to BamaChick
Jeffrey Daymer killed, raped, mutilated and ate about a dozen guys in his apt. It can be kept somewhat quiet.
If you have never been around a crusher, it is a big piece of industrial equipment. It is metered and requires a key. It is super loud and can be heard over hundreds of feet. To strip it, he would need numerous tools and it takes hours. Then he would have to transport it with a lift. Then there are still remains after it is crushed. A vin can still be recovered. I just don't get how or why he would have done it..
If you have never been around a crusher, it is a big piece of industrial equipment. It is metered and requires a key. It is super loud and can be heard over hundreds of feet. To strip it, he would need numerous tools and it takes hours. Then he would have to transport it with a lift. Then there are still remains after it is crushed. A vin can still be recovered. I just don't get how or why he would have done it..
Posted on 12/28/15 at 12:52 pm to brmark70816
Crushing a car at night would be noticed. Crushing a car in the course of a routine day would not. Not too hard to drain the fuel and let the air of the tires somewhere among that 40 acre compound, and then crush it. He did work there after all.
Besides, crushing a car doesn't mean any evidence is destroyed, it's still there inside the vehicle. Only by burning a vehicle could DNA evidence be destroyed.
I'm not buying the theory Avery/Dassey left the car in plain site. Someone smart enough to scrub a trailer and garage clean of DNA should find disposing of a car an easy thing, especially when you are in an isolated location with the tools to destroy the vehicle.
Besides, crushing a car doesn't mean any evidence is destroyed, it's still there inside the vehicle. Only by burning a vehicle could DNA evidence be destroyed.
I'm not buying the theory Avery/Dassey left the car in plain site. Someone smart enough to scrub a trailer and garage clean of DNA should find disposing of a car an easy thing, especially when you are in an isolated location with the tools to destroy the vehicle.
Posted on 12/28/15 at 1:10 pm to brmark70816
quote:
It is super loud and can be heard over hundreds of feet.
So is a woman screaming for her life and being shot 11 times.
I dare say the commotion of running a car crusher is the option least likely noticed at a car salvage yard as opposed to the commotion of a screaming chained woman and 11 gunshots and body burning bonfire.
Posted on 12/28/15 at 1:29 pm to hiltacular
Crushing the car would not elicit a "OMG, we're home-free now" moment. But the car planted there would place the burden on the defense to prove the clients had nothing to do with it, and they could not. It would be near impossible to prove the police planted it there, thus it was a no-brainer to have it placed there.
With a looming judgment against the county and individuals, easy for the crooked county to find evidence of a crime unrelated to Avery, plant the evidence on someone, and close the case while at the same time getting rid of a monetary loss. While Avery had the means to cover up a crime, the county had the means as well to frame someone and also the brainpower to get it done the right way. They just didn't cover their tracks too well. Knowing the victim had a reason to be on the Avery property was the opening they needed. And the sleazy Jerry Lundgaard-guy, he was in on it too. Should have been a mis-trial right there, the interrogation of a minor without his mother and/or lawyer present.
With a looming judgment against the county and individuals, easy for the crooked county to find evidence of a crime unrelated to Avery, plant the evidence on someone, and close the case while at the same time getting rid of a monetary loss. While Avery had the means to cover up a crime, the county had the means as well to frame someone and also the brainpower to get it done the right way. They just didn't cover their tracks too well. Knowing the victim had a reason to be on the Avery property was the opening they needed. And the sleazy Jerry Lundgaard-guy, he was in on it too. Should have been a mis-trial right there, the interrogation of a minor without his mother and/or lawyer present.
Posted on 12/28/15 at 1:30 pm to brmark70816
what do you make of the key showing up in Avery's room after it was already searched, what 7 times before that?
what do you make of only Avery's DNA being on the key, and not Halbach?
what do you make of only Avery's DNA being on the key, and not Halbach?
This post was edited on 12/28/15 at 1:41 pm
Posted on 12/28/15 at 1:33 pm to TechBullDawg
Anonymous is now on the case.
Anonymous has been pretty shite lately with their information, so I'll take all their allegations with a grain of salt until they actually produce something relevant but it's nonetheless something to keep an eye on.
quote:
Anonymous is apparently going to release phone records between Lenk and Colburn in the next 24 hours.
They're also suggesting there's evidence that Theresa's car had been towed to the spot where it was found on Avery's property -- namely, a missing left blinker and undercarriage damage. There's also a clean CarFax on the RAV4 showing it hadn't had any past damages.
They also allege they have GPS data on Colburn and ask why he was following Steve Avery without a warrant.
Anonymous has been pretty shite lately with their information, so I'll take all their allegations with a grain of salt until they actually produce something relevant but it's nonetheless something to keep an eye on.
Posted on 12/28/15 at 1:35 pm to TechBullDawg
quote:
While Avery had the means to cover up a crime, the county had the means as well to frame someone and also the brainpower to get it done the right way
even with that being said, the tampering evidence against the county far outweighs any link that Avery had to the murder. Sloppy investigation all around, coupled with obvious tampering & questionable intent by the Manitowoc PD at every turn.
the defense legitimately disproved every thing the state threw at them. the initial poll of the jurors proves what most people that watch the documentary think.
This post was edited on 12/28/15 at 1:38 pm
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