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re: Making a Murderer - Part 2
Posted on 10/30/18 at 10:38 am to VinegarStrokes
Posted on 10/30/18 at 10:38 am to VinegarStrokes
That seems probable. It very well could have been Steven Avery, but "I think Avery did it and he's a dirty person" aren't the standard. The state didn't prove their case in court, and guilty or not, Avery should be free.
2
Posted on 10/30/18 at 11:58 am to DisplacedBuckeye
Glad to see you cannot answer the question
Posted on 10/30/18 at 11:58 am to DisplacedBuckeye
Wait a second, whose side are you on? 
Posted on 10/30/18 at 12:05 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
The state didn't prove their case in court, and guilty or not, Avery should be free.
Well actually they did. If they didn't, he would be out.
Posted on 10/30/18 at 12:07 pm to LSUsmartass
I'm on whichever side Kratz is not. So I suppose I'd say Avery shouldn't be in prison right now.
Posted on 10/30/18 at 12:08 pm to VinegarStrokes
quote:
Well actually they did. If they didn't, he would be out.
Not true. At all. They were able to convince 12 people to return a guilty verdict. That doesn't mean they proved their case.
Posted on 10/30/18 at 12:22 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Not true. At all. They were able to convince 12 people to return a guilty verdict. That doesn't mean they proved their case.
lol, but that's all that matters. they proved their case beyond whatever those 12 individuals felt was a reasonable doubt. If those jurors had the luxury of watching the show, they probably don't convict, but we live in the real world here. Sucks for Avery, but that's the way it is.
Posted on 10/30/18 at 12:44 pm to VinegarStrokes
Dassey's confession should be thrown out purely based on the fact that none of it was true.
Posted on 10/30/18 at 12:48 pm to RedHawk
quote:
Dassey's confession should be thrown out purely based on the fact that none of it was true.
lol...ok. he should have hired you instead of the lawyers from Northwestern. He undoubtedly would not have had the United States Supreme Court turn down the opportunity to hear such a cogent argument.
Posted on 10/30/18 at 1:24 pm to VinegarStrokes
quote:
Sucks for Avery, but that's the way it is.
If we are saying this when evidence was clearly fabricated, lied about, and withheld then our criminal justice system is truly a real POS.
Posted on 10/30/18 at 1:29 pm to VinegarStrokes
quote:
he should have hired you instead of the lawyers from Northwestern. He undoubtedly would not have had the United States Supreme Court turn down the opportunity to hear such a cogent argument.
I think Dassey's lawyers, since they have basically used up all their appeal avenues, are simply waiting to see what the new evidence does for Avery. If that gets him a new trial, which I think it will, they are going to ramp up again with the new evidence. If that bullet that is in evidence wasn't fired in the garage and didn't contain actual blood from Theresa...I think they have a chance too.
I think both of these guys still have a fighting chance to be honest with you.
Posted on 10/30/18 at 1:36 pm to VinegarStrokes
quote:
lol, but that's all that matters.
No it isn't. We wouldn't be having this discussion if that were all that mattered.
quote:
If those jurors had the luxury of watching the show, they probably don't convict
Do you think this is entirely about Avery and correcting the flaws in his case? There's more at play here than what happened to Avery.
Posted on 10/30/18 at 2:20 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
I think it is more about the County and State of Wisconsin's entire legal system rawdogging Lady Justice without her consent.
This post was edited on 10/30/18 at 2:24 pm
Posted on 10/30/18 at 9:27 pm to TXGunslinger10
The prosecutor is/was a joke. Just a fat frick with a mustache who needed to be become a prosecutor because he can't see his dick - just like Nancy Grace because no guy would frick her.
At least Marcia Clark only said before trial to the jury pool "we have a mountain of evidence."
This clown uses Dassey's confession as the entire story behind the crime - and tells the public, before trial - this is what happened.
From the mouth of a mentally deficient guy with no attorney present.
This is the prosecution's cold stone fact of what happened...not from external evidence but from a forced and absurd confession.
If Dassey had said a Unicorn came down and forced Avery to committ this crime - THAT would have been the prosecutions theory.
Regardless - you don't go holding press conferences for the sole purpose of tainting the jury pool with some half-arse confession.
At least Marcia Clark only said before trial to the jury pool "we have a mountain of evidence."
This clown uses Dassey's confession as the entire story behind the crime - and tells the public, before trial - this is what happened.
From the mouth of a mentally deficient guy with no attorney present.
This is the prosecution's cold stone fact of what happened...not from external evidence but from a forced and absurd confession.
If Dassey had said a Unicorn came down and forced Avery to committ this crime - THAT would have been the prosecutions theory.
Regardless - you don't go holding press conferences for the sole purpose of tainting the jury pool with some half-arse confession.
This post was edited on 10/30/18 at 9:29 pm
Posted on 10/30/18 at 11:15 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
LOL at the Steven/Barb phone convo in ep 10
Barb: "She better get it out of her fricking mind, because I called that bitch today."
Steven: "She wasn't in."
Barb: "She better get it out of her fricking mind, because I called that bitch today."
Steven: "She wasn't in."
This post was edited on 10/30/18 at 11:16 pm
Posted on 10/31/18 at 12:38 am to lsuwontonwrap
The conversations between all of the Avery clan drive me crazy The constant use of the word “yeah” is soooo annoying.
B: A dragonfly landed on my shoulder.
M: Oh yeah?
B: Yeah. Was talking to inmate at rec and it just landed on my shoulder.
M: Yeah
B: Yeah
M: that’s a sign of change, Yeah?!
B: Yeah
(Side note: it Would make for a hell of a drinking game though)
Language jokes aside, this whole case is such an obvious fraud. It angers me even thinking about it. The Justice System is clearly broken, and I fear that those in charge of it, who also benefit from such injustices, will never allow for it to be overhauled. Too much at stake.
The constant use of the word “yeah” is soooo annoying. B: A dragonfly landed on my shoulder.
M: Oh yeah?
B: Yeah. Was talking to inmate at rec and it just landed on my shoulder.
M: Yeah
B: Yeah
M: that’s a sign of change, Yeah?!
B: Yeah
(Side note: it Would make for a hell of a drinking game though)
Language jokes aside, this whole case is such an obvious fraud. It angers me even thinking about it. The Justice System is clearly broken, and I fear that those in charge of it, who also benefit from such injustices, will never allow for it to be overhauled. Too much at stake.
Posted on 10/31/18 at 1:22 am to LSU316
quote:
If we are saying this when evidence was clearly fabricated, lied about, and withheld then our criminal justice system is truly a real POS.
I agree. Had Zellner been on the case from day 1, he probably doesn't get convicted. She clearly thinks about this shite on a whole different level than anyone else. And I say that after having thought that his original lawyers did a decent job.
Posted on 10/31/18 at 1:24 am to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
The prosecutor is/was a joke. Just a fat frick with a mustache who needed to be become a prosecutor because he can't see his dick - just like Nancy Grace because no guy would frick her.
At least Marcia Clark only said before trial to the jury pool "we have a mountain of evidence."
This clown uses Dassey's confession as the entire story behind the crime - and tells the public, before trial - this is what happened.
From the mouth of a mentally deficient guy with no attorney present.
This is the prosecution's cold stone fact of what happened...not from external evidence but from a forced and absurd confession.
If Dassey had said a Unicorn came down and forced Avery to committ this crime - THAT would have been the prosecutions theory.
Regardless - you don't go holding press conferences for the sole purpose of tainting the jury pool with some half-arse confession.
Yeah, the guy is an effeminate joke. The fact that he had the audacity to give an interview while at "CrimeCon" is all I need to know about him.
This post was edited on 10/31/18 at 1:33 am
Posted on 10/31/18 at 1:32 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
No it isn't. We wouldn't be having this discussion if that were all that mattered.
Who gives a frick about our discussion? People's lives have been ruined (if they are in fact innocent). All that matters in that regard is what 12 specific people thought based on the evidence that was provided. In the United States, that's all that matters.
quote:
Do you think this is entirely about Avery and correcting the flaws in his case? There's more at play here than what happened to Avery.
This is a really odd and quite frankly irrelevant response to the statement that you quoted from me. I clearly stated that if the jurors had been presented ALL of the evidence that we are now seeing, that they would probably acquit them. The same could probably be said for countless other cases. So no, I don't think and never have said that this is only about Avery, but his case is the vehicle driving this discussion so those are the details I am focusing on.
Posted on 10/31/18 at 7:00 am to VinegarStrokes
quote:
Who gives a frick about our discussion?
Discussion is how things change. We aren't going to do anything because we don't live in Wisconsin, but people who can make those changes are having the same discussions.
quote:
People's lives have been ruined (if they are in fact innocent).
Cool, and our discussion doesn't change that, does it?. Yet, here we are.
quote:
All that matters in that regard is what 12 specific people thought based on the evidence that was provided. In the United States, that's all that matters.
Completely incorrect. That's not how it works. At all.
quote:
This is a really odd and quite frankly irrelevant response to the statement that you quoted from me. I clearly stated that if the jurors had been presented ALL of the evidence that we are now seeing, that they would probably acquit them. The same could probably be said for countless other cases. So no, I don't think and never have said that this is only about Avery, but his case is the vehicle driving this discussion so those are the details I am focusing on.
It's not irrelevant. You seem to be under the impression that the verdicts in this case are the only things at play. You've repeatedly said just that, incorrect as it is.
You were wrong. It's not that big of a deal.
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