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re: Loki Episode 6 Season Finale Thread
Posted on 7/16/21 at 10:49 pm to Bard
Posted on 7/16/21 at 10:49 pm to Bard
quote:Mobius wasn't rebooted, this is a variant. In a variant timeline. He not only didn't recognize Loki, he didn't recognize "Loki"... which means this group hasn't been dealing with Sylvie (a Loki variant) killing them off. Mobius assumed he was an analyst.
Loki is in the tva before Sylvie killed Kang though correct?
Dammit. I was remembering it wrong.
Perhaps it was the act of actually meeting Kang? Or making it beyond the end time (or whatever the point was they passed through when Kang no longer knew what was going to happen)?
The TVA might be "outside time", but it's created by Kang. This version clearly didn't bother with the Time Keepers myth, they know Kang is in charge. But having the TVA, it clearly means the current Kang is still in the pruning business, so they will be altering things very subtly. Not enough to change his eventual birth and rise to power- the big changes occur after that happens.
Which means, Loki WILL be an analyst next season, trying to figure out WTF just happened, and what these guys are doing. He will "know" Mobius enough to play him some, but will have to be careful not to blow his cover.
3
Posted on 7/17/21 at 1:48 am to Scoob
Highly highly unlikely. Nice try but no. There is no way to know any of what you just suggested.
Posted on 7/17/21 at 6:12 am to rebeloke
quote:To what parts?
Highly highly unlikely. Nice try but no
quote:We've already established there are variants, not reboots, when the timeline changes. The TVA pruned dozens of Loki's. A "reboot" means just one exists, it gets overwritten.
Mobius wasn't rebooted, this is a variant
That's basic mechanics established by this show; and "pruning" doesn't kill the variant, it sends them somewhere. End of time to meet Alioth, at least when "Time Keeper" Kang was in charge. If that happened to "jetski Mobius", he just meets back up with Kid Loki again.
quote:Mobius straight up SAID that. "Calm down, you're an analyst, right? Get back to work" or something to that effect.
He not only didn't recognize Loki, he didn't recognize "Loki"... Mobius assumed he was an analyst
2 major implications there-
First, all season long Loki variants had been Public Enemy Number One. Suddenly he's an unknown, not even casually recognized as a type (much less personally by Mobius and the trooper). That means no Loki prunings by this bunch.
Second, with the announcement of season 2: it started out as a buddy procedural, with Loki and Mobius doing cases. Loki knows the role and will try to blend in, until he can escape; and it continues the show's MO.
quote:There's no way to know anything, until it's released. Doesn't mean we can't infer and speculate.
There is no way to know any of what you just suggested.
What do you think season 2 will be about?
Posted on 7/17/21 at 7:21 am to Scoob
Here's something somebody mentioned to me that made me think:
If Sylvie wanted to know if He Who Survives was lying, couldn't she have enchanted him and retrieved his memories?
I kinda think that she was dead set on killing him more because of all the stuff she's been through than because she didn't trust him for the future.
Of course, I also think "pruning" all of those time lines is more evil than letting them happen, even with all the death and destruction they would experience, so I don't really fault her for her actions.
If Sylvie wanted to know if He Who Survives was lying, couldn't she have enchanted him and retrieved his memories?
I kinda think that she was dead set on killing him more because of all the stuff she's been through than because she didn't trust him for the future.
Of course, I also think "pruning" all of those time lines is more evil than letting them happen, even with all the death and destruction they would experience, so I don't really fault her for her actions.
Posted on 7/17/21 at 12:43 pm to joshnorris14
So he who remains at some point in his life builds and sets up the tva after sharing tech with different versions of himself before multiversal war.
When he who remains is killed, there is no one to prune and stop the nexus events spawning alternate timelines all throughout time. So another bad Kang, allowed to sprout into existence now either
ends up winning the multiversal war and setting up the tva so with himself as the out in the open ruler.
Or
A conquering type Kang gained access into the tva location at some point, conquered it and put up statues of himself as the ruler of it
In no scenario so I understand a logical
Explanation of Loki remembering the previous tva but Mobius and bulldyke do not
No doubt marvel will explain this season 2 though. Excellent show 10/10
When he who remains is killed, there is no one to prune and stop the nexus events spawning alternate timelines all throughout time. So another bad Kang, allowed to sprout into existence now either
ends up winning the multiversal war and setting up the tva so with himself as the out in the open ruler.
Or
A conquering type Kang gained access into the tva location at some point, conquered it and put up statues of himself as the ruler of it
In no scenario so I understand a logical
Explanation of Loki remembering the previous tva but Mobius and bulldyke do not
No doubt marvel will explain this season 2 though. Excellent show 10/10
This post was edited on 7/17/21 at 12:55 pm
Posted on 7/17/21 at 4:22 pm to Fewer Kilometers
quote:
Why do you think Mobius doesn’t remember Loki?
He hadnt been following lokis in this timeline. Has no idea who he is. He never pursued any of them, they were never a thing in this world
This post was edited on 7/17/21 at 4:57 pm
Posted on 7/17/21 at 8:25 pm to Scoob
Would this "new" Kang of the TVA know that Loki is there in this new timeline? Not sure if he is going to be able to just sit around but if so then that means just more Loki/Mobius tag team!
This post was edited on 7/17/21 at 8:28 pm
Posted on 7/17/21 at 8:41 pm to Scoob
quote:
He not only didn't recognize Loki, he didn't recognize "Loki"
Excellent point!
Posted on 7/17/21 at 9:31 pm to SEClint
Interesting metaphysical analogy in play here.
Kang is Control and Order. He wants to control all of time.
Loki is the God of Mischief, and will not be either controlled or orderly. He is Chaos and Freedom.
Chaos will win out over Order. He Who Remains got close to winning, but the binary Loki's won out. And He Who Remains was the original, most successful version of Kang, the one who beat the rest. He knew of Loki and was actively pruning him, and still lost. Now we have another Kang, who didn't beat He Who Remains, and he doesn't even realize he has a Loki loose in his TVA.
Kang is Control and Order. He wants to control all of time.
Loki is the God of Mischief, and will not be either controlled or orderly. He is Chaos and Freedom.
Chaos will win out over Order. He Who Remains got close to winning, but the binary Loki's won out. And He Who Remains was the original, most successful version of Kang, the one who beat the rest. He knew of Loki and was actively pruning him, and still lost. Now we have another Kang, who didn't beat He Who Remains, and he doesn't even realize he has a Loki loose in his TVA.
Posted on 7/17/21 at 9:42 pm to Scoob
quote:
He Who Remains got close to winning, but the binary Loki's won out. And He Who Remains was the original, most successful version of Kang, the one who beat the rest. He knew of Loki and was actively pruning him, and still lost
he didnt lose.... he actively paved the way for the binary lokis to get to him. he hoped they would kill him and start everything back over to madness or they would do his job for him. either way he who remains was just done remaining, he got what he wanted.
Posted on 7/17/21 at 10:10 pm to AMS
quote:Well, first off... Order lost. That much is fact; he was unable to bring Loki into Order, even by offering them the keys to the kingdom.
he didnt lose.... he actively paved the way for the binary lokis to get to him. he hoped they would kill him and start everything back over to madness or they would do his job for him. either way he who remains was just done remaining, he got what he wanted.
As for paving the way etc; he said that, but did he mean it, or was it a mindfrick? You could almost view it either way.
Certainly you can take He Who Remains at his word, and he facilitated everything (including gathering all the Loki's he could, and placing them right outside his gate).
On the other hand, you could say he realized Loki would be his undoing, and actively sought to remove him... and failed.
And in the end, he offered the Deal with the Devil, and had male Loki swayed... but female Loki finished the deed.
His plan seemed to be to maintain the status quo, even though he was tired of it. He wanted the Loki duo to take over. They didn't, his legacy and all his hard work is gone, next Kang up to bat. And by the time THAT Kang is aware Loki is a threat, it's too late and he will have corrupted the TVA again.
Posted on 7/17/21 at 10:33 pm to Scoob
quote:
On the other hand, you could say he realized Loki would be his undoing, and actively sought to remove him... and failed.
you cant really say this, its 100% incorrect.
you could say he realized the lokis would be his salvation, and actively paved the way for them to meet... and succeeded.
eta - there is no way the 2 lokis would have met at the end of time without lokis being pruned. it all went 100% according to plan, he didn't care if he was killed that was accounted for and an acceptable option for him. either way he was done after that meeting.
This post was edited on 7/17/21 at 10:36 pm
Posted on 7/18/21 at 1:20 am to Scoob
quote:
Mobius wasn't rebooted, this is a variant. In a variant timeline. He not only didn't recognize Loki, he didn't recognize "Loki"... which means this group hasn't been dealing with Sylvie (a Loki variant) killing them off. Mobius assumed he was an analyst.
The TVA might be "outside time", but it's created by Kang. This version clearly didn't bother with the Time Keepers myth, they know Kang is in charge. But having the TVA, it clearly means the current Kang is still in the pruning business, so they will be altering things very subtly. Not enough to change his eventual birth and rise to power- the big changes occur after that happens.
I think you’re probably correct about the variant piece, but I’m having trouble figuring out how exactly it’s possible.
If it’s a variant universe, why did the temp pad take him back to the “wrong” TVA?
Although a reboot makes even less sense. I mean, if the TVA does indeed exist “outside time” then the death of He Who Remains shouldn’t cause them to reset. It’s not like Sylvie went back in time, before the TVA’s creation, and killed him. She went forward in time to the place where he was already controlling the TVA from the future. Given the fact that the TVA seem to be experiencing life “linearly,” despite the fact that the man behind the curtain is pulling the strings from the future, it stands to reason that the TVA Loki knew would have continued to exist after He Who Remains’ death - albeit in chaos.
Going back to the variant theory, I can see how a new (variant) TVA would be created by the “replacement” Kang once He Who Remains was killed. But I don’t understand why Loki would have been transported to the variant TVA. Didn’t he go through the door before Sylvie killed He Who Remains? Seems like he would have been plopped back in his TVA at that point.
It’s kind of a mindfrick when you start thinking about it. I do think the variant theory is probably correct. And maybe there’s a good explanation coming in season 2 for how Loki wound up in that timeline.
My best attempt at an explanation is: The moment He Who Remains passed the threshold where he no longer knew what would happen next, the new Kang(s) sprang to power. One of these new Kangs set up shop somewhere and created their version of the TVA, recruiting Mobius et al along the way. Except this more militarized version of the TVA went to war, pruning the rival TVA’s until it was the only one that remained. And all of this happened basically instantaneously once He Who Remains passed that threshold and no longer knew his own future. When Loki went through the door, the rival Kang was already in power. So Loki went to the only TVA - but it wasn’t Loki’s TVA.
This post was edited on 7/18/21 at 2:15 am
Posted on 7/18/21 at 1:58 am to lostinbr
quote:
She went forward in time to the place where he was already controlling the TVA from the future.
She went forward to the end of time to the point where Kang could control the present\past. Once he is no longer controlling the present from the future the present is free to change and let a new Lang take over. This would be obviously be happening at a different/rate of time than the events at the end of time.
quote:
The moment He Who Remains passed the threshold where he no longer knew what would happen next, the
This is likely it. Once this happened the timelines just continued branching as they always had. they didn’t wait for his death to branch. Remember Ravonna had been exposed at this point leaving no TVA leadership and went looking for the Kang who would be the winning Kang. so variants pruning had already been interrupted regardless of Kang living or not. If he didn’t get killed he’d know how to maintain control of variants but By the time he was killed other variants were wrecking shop.
I do like the idea that variants may have created their own TVA. if Kang can create the TVA we know outside of time whats to say some variants could not create their own TVAs?this could still exist within the same realm as our TVA or even other ‘pockets’ outside of time. The only reason there has only been 1 tva is BC that’s how Kang set it up.
Posted on 7/18/21 at 3:32 pm to lostinbr
I was hoping the more I read in the thread would make me like it more but it's only made it worse. Scoob you're casually giving me a headache 
Posted on 7/18/21 at 5:53 pm to iwyLSUiwy
Apologies but can someone explain Kang to me.
Let's just use the name "Kang" for simplicity sake
Kang in episode 6 is sitting with Loki and Selvi explaining who he is.
He said in 30 AD (maybe BC) from earth he discovered that there was a multi verse.
-first off how is that possible? Given such limited science and data at that time.
-he then said after he discovered multi verse he then started to meet other variants of those those universes and combined they all started to learn from each other to better there own universes.
- why was it Kang specifically that founded the multiverse? Why didn't any other being also discover it and meet their own variants?
Is this explained in the comics?
Serious questions from a non comic reader
Let's just use the name "Kang" for simplicity sake
Kang in episode 6 is sitting with Loki and Selvi explaining who he is.
He said in 30 AD (maybe BC) from earth he discovered that there was a multi verse.
-first off how is that possible? Given such limited science and data at that time.
-he then said after he discovered multi verse he then started to meet other variants of those those universes and combined they all started to learn from each other to better there own universes.
- why was it Kang specifically that founded the multiverse? Why didn't any other being also discover it and meet their own variants?
Is this explained in the comics?
Serious questions from a non comic reader
Posted on 7/18/21 at 6:24 pm to Magician2
3021 AD, 1000 years from now.
Posted on 7/18/21 at 6:27 pm to Magician2
quote:
He said in 30 AD (maybe BC) from earth he discovered that there was a multi verse.
-first off how is that possible? Given such limited science and data at that time.
bc he said something more like 3000 AD... so think much more advanced science and data at that time vs present day.
quote:
-he then said after he discovered multi verse he then started to meet other variants of those those universes and combined they all started to learn from each other to better there own universes.
yup. also that they started fighting to dominate other universes.
quote:
- why was it Kang specifically that founded the multiverse? Why didn't any other being also discover it and meet their own variants?
other beings just weren't as smart/baller as kang so he just happened to be first? other beings probably could have given enough time but I'm guessing being the first and only person to control time kinda puts you at an advantage over those who are behind. also the fact that he controlled timelines might be an explanation as to why others didnt. but we know folks meet variants, loki did, TVA meets them.
Posted on 7/18/21 at 6:32 pm to Magician2
quote:
He said in 30 AD (maybe BC) from earth he discovered that there was a multi verse.
-first off how is that possible?
3100 AD
quote:
- why was it Kang specifically that founded the multiverse? Why didn't any other being also discover it and meet their own variants?
IMO Tony Starks death coincided with Thanos defeat as the only way out of millions of possibilities to defeat Thanos because Tony Stark had to die. He had already just discovered Time travel and if left alive he would have discovered what Nathaniel Richards (Kang) was supposed to discover in 3100.
Posted on 7/19/21 at 3:39 am to GeauxLSUGeaux
Any chance the tva Loki is in is no longer called the tva
This is now called chronopolis?
This is now called chronopolis?
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