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Posted on 8/21/18 at 3:31 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
But when you look at it all by itself it doesn't stand on its own. It absolutely NEEDS to stand on the shoulders of the films in the franchise that came before it to hold up.
That's like saying Return of the King makes no sense...unless you saw the first two movies.
Well, yeah...no kidding.
Posted on 8/21/18 at 3:34 pm to RLDSC FAN
I love hating on Marvel movies, but IW was actually pretty good. I just wish they could have done Thanos with more practical effects.
Posted on 8/21/18 at 3:54 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
That's like saying Return of the King makes no sense...unless you saw the first two movies.
1) The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King was the final act of a three part film.
2) The Return of the King did not have 18 movies come before it.
My point is....a summer blockbuster movie shouldn't imitate serial television. That's why we have TV. Some people want to go to the biggest movie of the summer and not be totally confused as to what in the hell is going on because they haven't see the last Thor movie yet.
I liked Infinity War and have been following the MCU since Iron Man was released in 2008, but I can understand someone criticizing the fact that they have to do "homework" before they see some of these interconnected films in theaters.
This post was edited on 8/21/18 at 3:56 pm
Posted on 8/21/18 at 4:06 pm to RollTide1987
quote:There's little to no precedent, you're right there.
No. It's not like that at all. There is no comparison between a serialized TV show and a two hour film.
But that's exactly what the MCU is doing. The MCU is like Game of Thrones, building up to the climax. Just like there were great episodes that can stand alone (Battle of the Blackwater, Hardhome, Battle of the Bastards, Beyond the Wall etc), you have the MCU movies. Sometimes they are great outright, sometimes they are fairly blah.. and then you learn things from them that help later.
Infinity War is in NO way meant to be watched as JUST a standalone. It's got neat action scenes and visuals, but there's no way you'd understand any of the dynamics.
That's the beauty of it, you already understand things, so you get the meat without the exposition.
Posted on 8/21/18 at 4:17 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
My point is....a summer blockbuster movie shouldn't imitate serial television. That's why we have TV. Some people want to go to the biggest movie of the summer and not be totally confused as to what in the hell is going on because they haven't see the last Thor movie yet.
This is such a dumb take. They don't need to cater to casual moviegoers after spending 10 years of building towards this.
Posted on 8/21/18 at 4:23 pm to RLDSC FAN
He really wanted to use the phrase “rooted in pathos”.
Posted on 8/21/18 at 4:26 pm to craigbiggio
quote:
They don't need to cater to casual moviegoers after spending 10 years of building towards this.
That's all the MCU caters to is casual moviegoers.
The only time people go to the theater anymore is to see comic book movies, Star Wars films, and live action remakes of animated films.
This post was edited on 8/21/18 at 4:27 pm
Posted on 8/21/18 at 4:30 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
That's all the MCU caters to is casual moviegoers.
I meant casual to the MCU. Why would anyone see a movie that's part of a series and not expect to be completely confused. Like others have said, it's akin to seeing Return of the Jedi or Return of King without seeing the other movies.
Posted on 8/21/18 at 4:34 pm to craigbiggio
quote:
I meant casual to the MCU. Why would anyone see a movie that's part of a series and not expect to be completely confused. Like others have said, it's akin to seeing Return of the Jedi or Return of King without seeing the other movies.
Honestly I'm glad the Feige and whoever else is in charge of these movies isn't stupid enough to make each film so generic as to completely stand on their own. Making the investment to create it all as an entire arc has been a complete joy to experience. Coming from someone who has loved these characters in comics, video games, cartoons and whatever else before they finally got their due on the big screen in a way that could be done well.
Posted on 8/21/18 at 4:37 pm to craigbiggio
quote:
Why would anyone see a movie that's part of a series and not expect to be completely confused.
No one would. That isn't what I have been arguing.
quote:
Like others have said, it's akin to seeing Return of the Jedi or Return of King without seeing the other movies.
It most definitely is not.
Posted on 8/21/18 at 4:49 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
It most definitely is not.
Of course it is.
There's no way you can believe this:
quote:
It absolutely NEEDS to stand on the shoulders of the films in the franchise that came before it to hold up.
And think the same thing doesn't apply to literally any other movie series. Star Wars, LoTR, Harry Potter etc.
Posted on 8/21/18 at 5:23 pm to RLDSC FAN
Of course it's cool if you don't like IW, pal. I mean, that's your opinion and all. Just don't get butthurt when people don't like The Last Jedi.
Posted on 8/21/18 at 5:58 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
1) The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King was the final act of a three part film.
2) The Return of the King did not have 18 movies come before it.
Just because IW is a result of more movies, doesn't mean it is different.
quote:
My point is....a summer blockbuster movie shouldn't imitate serial television. That's why we have TV.
Eh, limiting film, or TV for that matter, in doing things "one way," is pretty restrictive and boring. I like that I can experience the MCU on a big screen and as a big multi-level production right next to a one shot like Hereditary or a contained trilogy like John Wick. I like the options.
If you want film to be one thing, that's fine and your opinion, but I heavily disagree.
quote:
Some people want to go to the biggest movie of the summer and not be totally confused as to what in the hell is going on because they haven't see the last Thor movie yet.
Some people want to go and watch a comedy. Some people want to go and watch a horror film. Some people want to go and watch the culmination of 18 films worth of story. To each his own man, the more creativity, the better.
And the MCU is doing something creatively different, and exciting, from nearly any other property. Just because it stands alone, doesn't mean it's wrong.
quote:Personally, I haven't view any MCU film as homework. And if you do, then maybe the MCU isn't for you
but I can understand someone criticizing the fact that they have to do "homework" before they see some of these interconnected films in theaters.
Posted on 8/21/18 at 5:58 pm to jlovel7
quote:
Honestly I'm glad the Feige and whoever else is in charge of these movies isn't stupid enough to make each film so generic as to completely stand on their own. Making the investment to create it all as an entire arc has been a complete joy to experience.
Amen to that.
Posted on 8/21/18 at 6:35 pm to Freauxzen
I go back to the Game of Thrones analogy. People who wonder about the appeal of that show, then turn it on in Season... 5, 6 etc. And then complain-
"it's too confusing. I can't figure out who all these different groups are, how they fit, who's fighting who, or why"
Well, no duh, there's been multiple seasons building to that point, you can't just jump in and start watching mid-stream.
Same thing applies to Infinity War. Don't watch the MCU films? Wondering what the big deal is, figure you might go ahead and check out IW? Mistake, you're going to be lost. There's 36 some-odd hours of background story coming together in that film. We've seen the exposition and buildup, this is the payoff. It expects you to keep up with things, because if you've seen the prior films, you will.
If you've skipped Avengers 2 AoU and CA:CW, then you're not going to understand that Stark and Cap don't get along anymore, or that Cap is a fugitive. Or that Stark has been haunted by fears of the impending end of the world that Thanos is bringing. Or that in this world, Stark and Peter Parker are super tight, adopted-son tight.
"it's too confusing. I can't figure out who all these different groups are, how they fit, who's fighting who, or why"
Well, no duh, there's been multiple seasons building to that point, you can't just jump in and start watching mid-stream.
Same thing applies to Infinity War. Don't watch the MCU films? Wondering what the big deal is, figure you might go ahead and check out IW? Mistake, you're going to be lost. There's 36 some-odd hours of background story coming together in that film. We've seen the exposition and buildup, this is the payoff. It expects you to keep up with things, because if you've seen the prior films, you will.
If you've skipped Avengers 2 AoU and CA:CW, then you're not going to understand that Stark and Cap don't get along anymore, or that Cap is a fugitive. Or that Stark has been haunted by fears of the impending end of the world that Thanos is bringing. Or that in this world, Stark and Peter Parker are super tight, adopted-son tight.
Posted on 8/21/18 at 6:53 pm to Scoob
quote:
I go back to the Game of Thrones analogy. People who wonder about the appeal of that show, then turn it on in Season... 5, 6 etc. And then complain-
"it's too confusing. I can't figure out who all these different groups are, how they fit, who's fighting who, or why"
Well, no duh, there's been multiple seasons building to that point, you can't just jump in and start watching mid-stream.
Same thing applies to Infinity War. Don't watch the MCU films? Wondering what the big deal is, figure you might go ahead and check out IW? Mistake, you're going to be lost. There's 36 some-odd hours of background story coming together in that film. We've seen the exposition and buildup, this is the payoff. It expects you to keep up with things, because if you've seen the prior films, you will.
If you've skipped Avengers 2 AoU and CA:CW, then you're not going to understand that Stark and Cap don't get along anymore, or that Cap is a fugitive. Or that Stark has been haunted by fears of the impending end of the world that Thanos is bringing. Or that in this world, Stark and Peter Parker are super tight, adopted-son tight.
Agreed.
I want shows like Lost and Fringe, while also wanting something short and contained like People vs. OJ. And totally episodic, yet-serial all at the same time, like Futurama. I want long running serials, and short miniseries, 30 min. Seinfelds, etc.
Same for film. One movie, two movies, trilogies, 7 parters. Disconnected properties like Bond and Star Trek. National Lampoon or Broken Lizard style. Books adapted over multiple films, etc.
I want whatever will serve the property best, and be the best representation of the Producer/Director's vision. That's THEIR choice to build it, and my choice to consume it. And I want the creator to take ideas and run with them.
The MCU, as big as it is, is that very thing. Sure it's massive. Sure that means Edgar Wright is cast aside. Sure that means the films have some necessary inclusions. But that's the vision.
What RollTide seems to be arguing is that film should be made in only 1 or two ways. One shots or low-number multiparts. No other arrangement is possible (and see the stance on Bond as well). I'm just not for that. I like the options, and I like properties being served in the best way they can.
Honestly, I don't see how you can be a fan of superheroes, read comics, and then want them only served up in one way, that's crazy for someone who "follows the films from 2008."
The fact that IW works is kind of amazing.
This post was edited on 8/21/18 at 6:57 pm
Posted on 8/21/18 at 7:44 pm to RLDSC FAN
I have said this before but my only problem with it was "killing" off people who you know have contracts for more movies.
Posted on 8/21/18 at 7:48 pm to gthog61
quote:
I have said this before but my only problem with it was "killing" off people who you know have contracts for more movies.
Here you go...
Posted on 8/21/18 at 8:44 pm to RollTide1987
Why? Simply because he’s a comic villain?
People can hate all they want...the MCU is a cultural phenomenon and it’s place among cinematic franchises is rock solid. Thanos is THE villain in the franchise (Loki is great of course, but almost an antihero half the time). Why would a great take on him not be remembered?
There really aren’t many truly great ones out there in the last 20 or so years so when one comes along they stand out and people talk about them for years. Look at Ledger’s Joker, Anton Chigurh, Voldemort, Gollum, Bill the Butcher, Magneto, Agent Smith etc etc. Still appreciated today. Or further back even to Scar, Hannibal Lecter, Darth Vader, even Norman Bates. All of these were from many years ago. There hasn’t really been one in film lately. Maybe Pennywise? Kylo had potential but isn’t there. Otherwise the Lannisters or Gus Fring come to mind, but that’s TV.
Thanos was built up for 10 years and delivered. Of course people will remember, plus we’ve only seen half his story.
People can hate all they want...the MCU is a cultural phenomenon and it’s place among cinematic franchises is rock solid. Thanos is THE villain in the franchise (Loki is great of course, but almost an antihero half the time). Why would a great take on him not be remembered?
There really aren’t many truly great ones out there in the last 20 or so years so when one comes along they stand out and people talk about them for years. Look at Ledger’s Joker, Anton Chigurh, Voldemort, Gollum, Bill the Butcher, Magneto, Agent Smith etc etc. Still appreciated today. Or further back even to Scar, Hannibal Lecter, Darth Vader, even Norman Bates. All of these were from many years ago. There hasn’t really been one in film lately. Maybe Pennywise? Kylo had potential but isn’t there. Otherwise the Lannisters or Gus Fring come to mind, but that’s TV.
Thanos was built up for 10 years and delivered. Of course people will remember, plus we’ve only seen half his story.
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