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Started By
Message
re: GOT Question About Catelyn Stark---Finished Book Readers Only SPOILERS
Posted on 6/5/13 at 3:29 pm to toughcrittercrumb
Posted on 6/5/13 at 3:29 pm to toughcrittercrumb
quote:
Could you give me some supporting facts? I can't remember anything that indicated that he was still alive. I guees I was too pissed off to care.
Wrong person. I'm not the one who thinks he's obviously still alive. The only two things I can think of are that either we're assuming that Melisandre will revive him or that he shifted to Ghost or someone/something else. The last line from Jon's POV says that he never felt the fourth blade, only the cold. So maybe he shifted to something else and no longer felt himself being stabbed. Or he was dying and his senses were dulling so that he couldn't feel the blades anymore.
0
Posted on 6/5/13 at 3:32 pm to OFWHAP
quote:
What is SO obvious in the book to indicate that he isn't dead?
Jon's story isn't over. There's too many unresolved story lines with him for him to be killed off. It was only a few chapters before his "death" that Mel saw him in his flames when searching for Azor Ahai...
Posted on 6/5/13 at 3:33 pm to OFWHAP
quote:
What is SO obvious in the book to indicate that he isn't dead?
The fact that he wasn't shown to be dead. When characters are DEAD in a Martin book, we know. He loves to fake people out with this sort of thing, and there are numerous examples of it. If a character is not shown to be 100% dead, they aren't.
Beyond that, there is a lot.
Melissandre had warned him of daggers in the dark in the past, clearly she knew something. AND, she is present for the stabbing.
And his wounds "smoke" and the tears are "salty"...very interesting word choice, wouldn't you say.
And, for practical purposes, Jon is Martin's POV character at the Wall...he would need a new primary one.
He's setting up Jon to: be able to be released from his Night's Watch vows and by Azor Ahai. Its pretty clear.
Even George Martin's interviews are cagey about it. He's not dead (well, he may have "died").
Anyone who thinks so...I don't know what to tell you. You're wrong though.
This post was edited on 6/5/13 at 3:35 pm
Posted on 6/5/13 at 3:34 pm to toughcrittercrumb
At the beginning, I think Melisandre says something like "why do you hate me? You may need me some day"
Posted on 6/5/13 at 3:37 pm to EarthwormJim
A) Mel's a "she" B) Melisandre has misread images in her flames multiple times.
Posted on 6/5/13 at 3:43 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
And, for practical purposes, Jon is Martin's POV character at the Wall...he would need a new primary one.
Melisandre now has a POV.
quote:
He's setting up Jon to: be able to be released from his Night's Watch vows and by Azor Ahai. Its pretty clear.
If this is the case, then George will still need a new POV for the Wall.
I personally believe that, yes, there is more to Snow's storyline, but I've also given up trying to jump to conclusions. I've also noticed (and correct me if I'm wrong) that a character has never been killed while in his/her POV. I believe Ned was killed in Arya's POV.
Posted on 6/5/13 at 3:49 pm to OFWHAP
Cat was killed in her POV. Only one I can think of.
But we quickly got confirmation that she was dead. Sort of...
When Martin kills a character, he does it in a certain way. This is not it.
We know that not only can a Red Priest revive...they can heal as well (Victarion).
He is reborn amid Salt and Smoke.
Jon is not dead. Clearly.
But we quickly got confirmation that she was dead. Sort of...
When Martin kills a character, he does it in a certain way. This is not it.
We know that not only can a Red Priest revive...they can heal as well (Victarion).
He is reborn amid Salt and Smoke.
Jon is not dead. Clearly.
Posted on 6/5/13 at 3:50 pm to OFWHAP
quote:
Melisandre has misread images in her flames multiple times
Including when she ignored that she asked to see Azor Ahai and she was shown Jon Snow.
Posted on 6/5/13 at 4:02 pm to EarthwormJim
quote:
It didn't hit me as much as the other stark deaths, more disgusted with Martin than anything.
Well what we know now of UnKat and Beric and knowing Melissandre was present with the power of the red god, the slaying of Jon was taken a lot more in stride then the RW and Ned's head coming off.
Let's just hope she gets the words right...
This post was edited on 6/5/13 at 4:04 pm
Posted on 6/5/13 at 4:16 pm to Zephyrius
Jon's death didn't even bother me because I knew it wasn't real.
Posted on 6/5/13 at 4:22 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:me either. that's the problem with too much reincarnation in a story.
Jon's death didn't even bother me because I knew it wasn't real.
Posted on 6/5/13 at 7:57 pm to Supravol22
quote:
quote:
That's because there has always been a Stark in Winterfell since Greyjoy seized it.
wut
The hooded man, I think, is Benjen Stark. If the they hold the saying true, it's him.
Also, Jon Snow isn't dead, it's pretty clear.
Posted on 6/5/13 at 8:08 pm to RonBurgundy
Crossing my fingers, I don't think Jon is truly 'dead' either. Just hope he's not like Uncat. 
Posted on 6/5/13 at 8:10 pm to ladytiger118
i wasnt even mad. no way he's dead
spent way too much time with him. he, tyrion, and dany are the ones people really care about
spent way too much time with him. he, tyrion, and dany are the ones people really care about
Posted on 6/5/13 at 8:14 pm to Carson123987
Even though Dany's storyline slows down a lotttt, she's still one of the main characters. Plus it's likely that she and Tyrion will meet up in TWoW. If Ser Too Fat wants to finish the series in 7 books, Dany needs to get to Westeros sometime in book 6.
If Jon is really dead, then I will be more upset than the Red Wedding and Ned's head chopped off combined times a million.
But like I said, I'm 99% certain that Jon isn't dead and that he'll be revived by Melisandre.
If Jon is really dead, then I will be more upset than the Red Wedding and Ned's head chopped off combined times a million.
But like I said, I'm 99% certain that Jon isn't dead and that he'll be revived by Melisandre.
Posted on 6/5/13 at 8:41 pm to ladytiger118
I never really thought Jon was dead myself. For all the reasons stated
- it wasn't established in story that he was
- he seems to be on a pretty defined arc which it
would not seem logical to interupt from a storytelling perspective
- The story of the skinchanger in the prologue about this death and that death and true death, etc. had to serve some purpose and I think it was that a human "soul" could survive at least some amount of time in an animal host.
- Song of Ice and Fire and the flower growing in the ice, etc.
- My favorite Wild Bill Guanere quote from Band of Brothers: "if there ain't no body, there ain't nobody fricking dead".
Of course I could be wrong. Heck, I was more concerned that Pod was dead. But that has pretty much been shown not to be the case.
- it wasn't established in story that he was
- he seems to be on a pretty defined arc which it
would not seem logical to interupt from a storytelling perspective
- The story of the skinchanger in the prologue about this death and that death and true death, etc. had to serve some purpose and I think it was that a human "soul" could survive at least some amount of time in an animal host.
- Song of Ice and Fire and the flower growing in the ice, etc.
- My favorite Wild Bill Guanere quote from Band of Brothers: "if there ain't no body, there ain't nobody fricking dead".
Of course I could be wrong. Heck, I was more concerned that Pod was dead. But that has pretty much been shown not to be the case.
Posted on 6/5/13 at 9:10 pm to Methuselah
GRRM is predictable in being unpredictable.
He writes deaths in a certain way. Jon isn't dead.
He writes deaths in a certain way. Jon isn't dead.
Posted on 6/6/13 at 8:00 am to nikki6
Heck, she will likely look so physically distorted that they could probably use a different actress if they had to.
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