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re: George Lucas talks about his Star Wars Sequels that were never made
Posted on 6/15/18 at 7:34 am to Breesus
Posted on 6/15/18 at 7:34 am to Breesus
quote:
There are plenty of talents in the real world today that anyone can master but few actually do. Because mastering a talent and fighting for it is hard. And it takes time. And most people are too lazy or too easily swayed.
I agree with that, but there's also the fact that no matter how much you try to master it, there things that you simply have to have the genetics to be great at it. There's only 1 Lebron James in this world, and he's the best (by the way, i hate LeBitch). There isn't another 6'9" 250 dude that athletic in the world, and the same goes for Kevin Durant, and they both worked extremely hard to master their craft. There are plenty of 6'6" athletic guys in the world, yet MJ and Kobe are at the top of the list b/c of their hard work.
If you aren't born with athletic ability, you aren't going to learn to be athletic.
If you aren't born smart, you aren't going to all of a sudden become smarter simply b/c you try harder and concentrate.
I don't see the problem with some people having the ability to achieve greatness with the force, b/c of a higher midiclorian count, and others having to work hard simply to be average b/c they have an average count. there's midiclorians in everyone, some have more than others. just b/c you have more, doensn't mean you are destined to be a better Jedi.
Regardless of how you want to intepret it, midiclorians or not, not everyone can become a jedi. If there are no midiclorians ever presented, only those born with the will, patience, work ethic, and concentration can master it. I immediately think of my ritalin friend growing up and there is no amount of training he could have done to become a jedi b/c he lacked the ability to concentrate at the level needed (yes i know i'm weaving real world into Star Wars). You simply have to have the genetics to master it. Doesn't mean if you don't have them you can't become one, or if you do have them, you will become one. same goes for pretty much everything we do here in this world.
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Posted on 6/15/18 at 7:37 am to Sneaky__Sally
For me, it's one of the worst decisions made in all of Star Wars. The way Lucas handled it makes it a joke.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 7:43 am to Argonaut
like just the fact that they exist or that the whole them conceiving Anakin thing?
Posted on 6/15/18 at 7:46 am to Sneaky__Sally
I don't ultimately have a problem that they exist. I think it's a completely unnecessary explanation that no one asked for, but whatever. I don't really even care about the Immaculate Conception nonsense. Again, it's unnecessary, but whatever. My problem is the completely different concepts of the Force between the OT and PT, mostly centered on Obi-Wan. Why does he know what they are and place importance on them in the PT, then in the OT they never come up and it's a completely different concept? Again, it's not impossible that the two could happen, but it's completely stupid.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 8:00 am to Argonaut
quote:
Why does he know what they are and place importance on them in the PT, then in the OT they never come up and it's a completely different concept? Again, it's not impossible that the two could happen, but it's completely stupid.
maybe he wanted the ways of the old force to die out, kill the emperor and Vader, train Luke differently, and let him start everything over, or simply let Luke die after killing Vader and Emperor, and there not be any force users left.
Obi Wan and Yoda sort of had a come to jesus moment when they realized what the emperor did, and that maybe the Jedi council wasn't what was best for the galaxy either.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 8:02 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
maybe he wanted the ways of the old force to die out, kill the emperor and Vader, train Luke differently, and let him start everything over, or simply let Luke die after killing Vader and Emperor, and there not be any force users left.
That's a lot of maybe. The fact that the gaps in the story are large enough to insert all of that should be an indicator of how terrible it is.
quote:
Obi Wan and Yoda sort of had a come to jesus moment when they realized what the emperor did, and that maybe the Jedi council wasn't what was best for the galaxy either.
Then playing the Force off almost as a religion is the worst thing they could've done.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 8:29 am to Argonaut
Regarding story consistency, i just don't think its a different concept, its just a more simplified explanation in the OT and Obi Wan was only with Luke for a bit - probably taught him what he thought was important and all.
The real answer is that shite evolves as you get further into it and realize additional things that need to be done. Midichloriencs do serve one large purpose in answering the question of "how do the jedi find all these potential younglings" as well as a few other things. Anakin didn't display much outwardly and it took a jedi master to realize his potential - and he was already older than most who begin. They perform some other things too.
The real answer is that shite evolves as you get further into it and realize additional things that need to be done. Midichloriencs do serve one large purpose in answering the question of "how do the jedi find all these potential younglings" as well as a few other things. Anakin didn't display much outwardly and it took a jedi master to realize his potential - and he was already older than most who begin. They perform some other things too.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 8:40 am to RLDSC FAN
Fans- The Force is controlled by will.
GL-- No dammit the Force is controlled by Whills, little microbial beasts that control everything.
KK/Dis-- The Force is powered by the good feelings of women and minorities overthrowing their white overlords.
GL-- No dammit the Force is controlled by Whills, little microbial beasts that control everything.
KK/Dis-- The Force is powered by the good feelings of women and minorities overthrowing their white overlords.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 9:34 am to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
Regarding story consistency, i just don't think its a different concept, its just a more simplified explanation in the OT and Obi Wan was only with Luke for a bit - probably taught him what he thought was important and all.
Even if I bought into that explanation (I don't), Obi-Wan isn't the only person in the galaxy who would have been aware of midichlorians. There's just no way to sell it that makes sense. That's the problem with introducing "science" like that. At least they were smart enough not to bring them up in the Sequel Trilogy, which would have made things much worse.
quote:
Midichloriencs do serve one large purpose in answering the question of "how do the jedi find all these potential younglings" as well as a few other things.
It's a self-contained answer that was only necessary because of more poor writing in the Prequels.
quote:
Anakin didn't display much outwardly and it took a jedi master to realize his potential - and he was already older than most who begin. They perform some other things too.
What? The people around him specifically talk about his unusual aptitude. It's called out that the only reason he wasn't noticed earlier is because of where he lives. Midichlorians are not necessary for that to happen.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 9:43 am to Argonaut
quote:
Even if I bought into that explanation (I don't), Obi-Wan isn't the only person in the galaxy who would have been aware of midichlorians
It wasn't necessary for the viewer (outside of discussing anakin's powers) and the only reason anakin finds out is because he asked. I don't think the concept of midichlorians are as important as a lot of people act like they are.
quote:
What? The people around him specifically talk about his unusual aptitude. It's called out that the only reason he wasn't noticed earlier is because of where he lives.
The way i see is that he is one of / the most powerful jedi ever - so how would they have found all the jedi that aren't really worth a shite (a lot of those were around in the galactic republic days) when they were basically toddlers.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 9:51 am to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
It wasn't necessary for the viewer (outside of discussing anakin's powers) and the only reason anakin finds out is because he asked.
Sounds like the entire concept of midichlorians.
quote:
I don't think the concept of midichlorians are as important as a lot of people act like they are.
I might agree if it was something that was just mentioned, but that didn't happen. They went out of their way to show that his count was higher than Yoda's and that Qui-Gon didn't know what that meant. Lucas gave them importance, not the fans.
quote:
The way i see is that he is one of / the most powerful jedi ever - so how would they have found all the jedi that aren't really worth a shite (a lot of those were around in the galactic republic days) when they were basically toddlers.
The same way you find talent in the real world. No one is measuring midichlorians or putting their counts on their resumes.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 10:02 am to Argonaut
quote:
The same way you find talent in the real world. No one is measuring midichlorians or putting their counts on their resumes.
The NBA draft is coming up next week, and it disagrees with your statement. There are thousands of players under 6' that worked a lot harder at basketball than those gifted to be 6'9" and athletic. The draft combine for both the NFL and NBA is literally just measuring god given measurables. If you don't have them, it's extremely difficult for you to make it to the NBA. There aren't a bunch of John Stockton's walking around in the NBA.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 10:07 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
The NBA draft is coming up next week, and it disagrees with your statement.
No it doesn't. It further supports my statement. No one is testing the cellular structure of those athletes.
quote:
The draft combine for both the NFL and NBA is literally just measuring god given measurables.
No it isn't. It's measuring their ability to perform specific actions related to specific tasks. That is something that can be developed, not midichlorians.
You're literally making my point for me.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 10:09 am to Argonaut
quote:
I might agree if it was something that was just mentioned, but that didn't happen. They went out of their way to show that his count was higher than Yoda's and that Qui-Gon didn't know what that meant. Lucas gave them importance, not the fans.
That gave Anakin importance IMO.
quote:
The same way you find talent in the real world. No one is measuring midichlorians or putting their counts on their resumes.
The age at which younglings are supposed to start their training is a factor in having non-inherent measurable for selection.
This post was edited on 6/15/18 at 10:11 am
Posted on 6/15/18 at 10:12 am to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
That gave Anakin importance IMO.
We already had that.
quote:
test scores, gpa, etc. measurable in athletes and the age at which younglings are supposed to start their training is a factor.
That isn't even remotely in the same world as something that is measurable at the cellular level, and even so, we already had it called out that Anakin had shown potential that wasn't identified. Midichlorians wasn't necessary or amplifying to that.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 10:17 am to Argonaut
Sorry, I edited after reading your other post thoroughly.
But Anakin was (1) the "most powerful" and (2) too old to start his training technically. So he is the outlier - the other, less natural gifted and proper aged younglings wouldn't have had the time to display outside indicators like that. He is the exception, not the rule.
They actually give a little insight into the younglings being found as babies and then waiting until they are slightly older to become younglings in The Clone Wars cartoon, its interesting
But Anakin was (1) the "most powerful" and (2) too old to start his training technically. So he is the outlier - the other, less natural gifted and proper aged younglings wouldn't have had the time to display outside indicators like that. He is the exception, not the rule.
They actually give a little insight into the younglings being found as babies and then waiting until they are slightly older to become younglings in The Clone Wars cartoon, its interesting
This post was edited on 6/15/18 at 10:18 am
Posted on 6/15/18 at 10:20 am to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
But Anakin was (1) the "most powerful" and (2) too old to start his training technically. So he is the outlier - the other, less natural gifted and proper aged younglings wouldn't have had the time to display outside indicators like that. He is the exception, not the rule.
Again, this is a circular, self-contained problem that exists only because of the poor writing in the Prequels. It doesn't make midichlorians necessary or a good idea.
quote:
They actually give a little insight into the younglings being found as babies and then waiting until they are slightly older to become younglings in The Clone Wars cartoon, its interesting
There are dozens of other ways this could have been done that don't involve introducing confusing and contradictory concepts.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 1:57 pm to Argonaut
quote:
No it isn't. It's measuring their ability to perform specific actions related to specific tasks. That is something that can be developed, not midichlorians.
You, Argonaut, no matter how much you train, could never be an NFL player. There is literally nothing you could do to be able to run as fast, jump as high, or be quick enough to compete at that level. You simply have to be born with that ability. Yes it takes work to get to that level, but if you aren't born with it, you can't attain it by simply working hard.
No one can develop a 7' wingspan. You can't develop 6 more inches to your height simply by working harder. You're either born with it or you aren't.
These are all things that the combine measures. They aren't measuring how good of a football or basketball player you were in college, they are measuring how good your god given abilities are, literally, and combining that with what they've seen from you on the field.
If what your saying is the case, Rudy wouldn't of been offsides, and would have been an NFL Hall of Famer.
quote:
You're literally making my point for me.
You literally have no idea what you're talking about.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 2:02 pm to AshLSU
quote:
So if anyone could learn it, why the frick were there not thousands of Jedi and Sith?
It doesn’t explicitly say one way or another but it does leave you with the idea that some people have an affinity for it and others don’t. It’s not like Obi Wan and Yoda didn’t know who Luke was.
quote:This is the answer, the reason there aren't countless Force users in the OT (and nowhere are microbes suggested).
do or do not. There is no try. I remember Yoda telling Luke he needs to concentrate and unlearn what he had learned.
The Force is tapped into and controlled via the mind.
Full belief and acceptance (and blind faith), with zero doubt or hesitancy.
Think of it like an athletic feat, but without any levels of achievement other than you reach it or you don't.
100 meter sprint, your best time- we're not talking about what time you run, we're talking about you achieving your best. You do NOT run that if you hold anything back.
It's the mental equivalency. Connecting to the Force requires 100% belief, or else you don't connect. Anyone CAN do it, in theory... but very few can do it in practice. The vast majority will doubt at some point.
Luke relinquished all doubt when he launched the torpedoes, and used the Force.
At that point, he had the epiphany, and the Force was open to him; thus he could use the Force to do things like bring the lightsaber to him on Hoth. He could also levitate small things, because he 100% believed he could, based on that moment.
He didn't believe he could lift the X-Wing, so he couldn't.
It takes a very special type of mindset to 100% believe anything, and then 100% believe you WILL do something in specific is an additional step. Cynics and skeptics are automatically out, doubts further weed the group.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 2:25 pm to Scoob
I'm good with all of that Scoob.
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