re: Game of Thrones S4:E2:"The Lion and the Rose", HODORS ONLY (no book readers)

Watching him in a different show or movie is going to be impossible

For me, everything is pointing at Cersei. The conversation with Pycelle mainly. I just think she's evil and power hungry enough to do it.

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For me, everything is pointing at Cersei. The conversation with Pycelle mainly. I just think she's evil and power hungry enough to do it.

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I just don't see it. Her power basically only comes from her kids as queen regent. Also, she's said before that you can't really love anyone except your children.

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I just don't see it.

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Me neither. Least likely person IMO.

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For me, everything is pointing at Cersei. The conversation with Pycelle mainly.

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Cersei just hates Pycelle, in the last episode she went on about his lecherous ways to Jaime. I just think she was venting/wanting to go behind Margery's back with the food.

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Maybe. Maybe not.

The key point is that Sansa hasn't been the same since Lady was killed. She had a lot more fire before then. A second trauma for her was when Ned was killed - she was right there, and Joffrey ordered it - you'll recall that Robb and Jon, particularly, got their dander up when Ned was killed - Sansa seemed to sink further into a funk.

Now that Robb is dead, Sansa thinks she is the last Stark child (other than Jon, and she probably hasn't had much news of him, either). There's no telling what she's thinking, now.

With Joffrey's death, I wonder if she'll bounce back some...

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I feel like Sansa has been in very much a similar position as Theon. Held against her will and tortured, albeit mostly mental/emotional/vocal torture as opposed to the physical torture of Theon.

They are both very much just shells of their former selves and appear to be in a nearly catatonic state. I'm still hoping that something will happen with Sansa and Tyrion that gives her character something to do besides be a victim.

It has been determined that the birds were infected with the AIDS. Matthew McconauGHEY caught the AIDS while filming DBC, and then Rust Cohle transferred the AIDS to the birds in the HBO parking lot. Birds go into the pie and Boom, Joffrey eats bloody BIRDFLUAIDS birds that he chopped up.

Honestly tho time is a flat circle and Joffrey's dream of being a person just ended.

All we are in agreement that Tyrion had nothing to do with it?

I would think so

I think there are three ways to look at seeing who did it:

Who had the motive?

Who had the means?

And what did we explicitly see that?



1. Who had the motive?

This list is about as long as the number of characters there are on the fricking show.

Of those in attendance that have motive:

Cersei - becomes Queen Regent again
Tywin - kinda murky but as someone brought up, he hates Joff because he is a out of control little bitch well on his way to becoming a mad king.
Tyrion - Pretty obvious, Joff hates him.
Jaime - Hates him, no direct reason other than Joff being a condescending bitch.
Tommen - he becomes king

That's just the Lannisters.

Sansa - Joff killed her dad, and ruined her entire life
Red Viper - Even though he said he only wants the Mountain and Tywin, who knows
Ole Grammy Tyrell - I don't get her motive, does she have one underlying I don't see? Margaery isn't the queen.
Margaery - realizes Joff is a loose cannon, but she has control over him to an extent for now, is that motive?
Varys - What's his motive?

There are a bunch more, but I think I hit the highlights of those that were there. It could be someone behind the scenes though.

Who had the opportunity and means?

Tyrion touched the cup, so did Sansa. Both have the O and M, but that wasn't really planned IMO. Tyrion didn't know he would be cup bearer, and Sansa didn't know she would touch the cup. BUT the cup makes the most sense since Joff is the only one to drink out of it.

Cersei was close enough, so was Margaery and perhaps Grandma.

Did anyone else see Tyrion touch his finger to the cup and taste it? OR was I dreaming that?


And finally, we explicitly see one thing that the show wanted us to see. The fool trying to get Sansa out.

So we know one thing for sure, the fool is involved and someone is trying to protect Sansa. Or she is trying to protect herself. I don't think that she was trying to protect herself, she could have just slipped out with the fool during the brouhaha. I don't think Sansa knew what was going on.

SO who knew the fool? I have no idea, but he is the key to this. And so is the necklace IMO. I think the necklace is also a key, since the fool clearly gave it to Sansa and they took the time to show us that. The fool knew ahead of time this was going down, he is involved.

I think it was the Grandmother.