- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Game of Thrones Re-Read/Re-Watch Project (Multiple Book Spoilers)
Posted on 9/22/12 at 10:52 am to ornagestorm
Posted on 9/22/12 at 10:52 am to ornagestorm
quote:
I wonder how many Unsullied Illyrio has stashed away. In Dany's chapter, he only shows a few as household guards, but they only sale them in groups of 100s of 1000s. I would not be surprised to learn that he has more, Unsullied ready to fight for him.
Nice catch.
And that is interesting. Obviously given info we've come upon in later books they would be supporting Connington and Aegon.
0
Posted on 9/22/12 at 10:53 am to ornagestorm
Good Point. I guess he could only have a few though. He has a good relationship with the Dothraki and could have traded for individuals at different times. I wouldnt think the Dothraki would care about adhering to the rules and only trade a few at a time.
Posted on 9/22/12 at 4:53 pm to ornagestorm
quote:
I wonder how many Unsullied Illyrio has stashed away. In Dany's chapter, he only shows a few as household guards, but they only sale them in groups of 100s of 1000s. I would not be surprised to learn that he has more, Unsullied ready to fight for him.
The slaver states that they used to sell them as household guards but found out that they didn't do well when they weren't in a large group so they quit.
Posted on 9/22/12 at 8:55 pm to CottonWasKing
My issue with the Unsullied: IRL, this would be an army of baby-fat, bitch-tittied, hormonally challenged softies. With a complete lack of testosterone, they wouldn't even have aggression to feed on. Docile and (physically)weak, like Varys. Hardly foreboding warriors.
Sure, it's fiction, but Martin usually shys away from all-out contradictory situations.
Really my only IRL issue with the series.
Sure, it's fiction, but Martin usually shys away from all-out contradictory situations.
Really my only IRL issue with the series.
Posted on 9/22/12 at 11:52 pm to 19
quote:
My issue with the Unsullied: IRL, this would be an army of baby-fat, bitch-tittied, hormonally challenged softies. With a complete lack of testosterone, they wouldn't even have aggression to feed on. Docile and (physically)weak, like Varys. Hardly foreboding warriors.
Now I'm admittedly no expert on human biology but in GRRM's defense the unsullied aren't supposed to be stronger or faster or more aggressive than normal people. Their strength lies within their unquestionable loyalty, their inability to feel pain and their legendary discipline.
They are never described as being great warriors they are the best SOLDIERS in the realm. There is a big difference there. Their lines will never break, their men will never flee and they will never disobey. They are every generals dream... if they lose an even fight the fault lies only in the commanding officer.
The strategy they bring to war, the warfare they are great at (much like the roman phalanx) doesn't rely on extreme feats of strength and speed. Order and discipline is their bread and butter and that, they excel in.
Posted on 9/23/12 at 12:35 am to Jubilee
quote:
I also like how that takes Aegon out of the equation. Presumably.
I actually think it strengthens a theory in my mind. In the other crackpot thread I wrote about parallels with Jon & Aegon, one of which were the promises I think were made by Ned and Varys, albeit very different promises. I think Serra Blackyre made her brother Varys promise on her death bed to put Aegon on the throne and restore their line. Ned is believed to have promised Lyanna on her death bed to keep Jon safe and hidden from the spot light ie. King Robert.
Posted on 9/23/12 at 10:10 am to CottonWasKing
I read that same link before I posted 
I know Martin's intention was to present them as a colony of ants or drones, insignificant individually but strong as a united force in their phalanx formations. The idea is borrowed from history and sound, but making them eunuchs was a faux pas in itself; castrating them pre-puberty was borderline retarded, as they will have never developed physically. The ratio of the child slaves surviving the training to those fed to dogs would be somewhere in the 'hood of 100 to 1, and I think that's conservative. The cost for each fully trained INDIVIDUAL unsullied would make the entire enterprise unsustainable.
The effect on brain chemistry is another issue altogether, but IRL the biggest problem - making it unlikely ANY would survive the training. The very concepts of discipline and sacrifice would be meaningless, as they would only want to eat and sleep. Even if they could be molded, disciplined cannon fodder is still cannon fodder.
Martin left himself an out, though with this elixir they drink at each meal, so he at least tried to include a supplement to make up for no testosterone, so I let it ride, especially since it now looks like they will play a lesser role in Dani's conquest of Westeros.
I know Martin's intention was to present them as a colony of ants or drones, insignificant individually but strong as a united force in their phalanx formations. The idea is borrowed from history and sound, but making them eunuchs was a faux pas in itself; castrating them pre-puberty was borderline retarded, as they will have never developed physically. The ratio of the child slaves surviving the training to those fed to dogs would be somewhere in the 'hood of 100 to 1, and I think that's conservative. The cost for each fully trained INDIVIDUAL unsullied would make the entire enterprise unsustainable.
The effect on brain chemistry is another issue altogether, but IRL the biggest problem - making it unlikely ANY would survive the training. The very concepts of discipline and sacrifice would be meaningless, as they would only want to eat and sleep. Even if they could be molded, disciplined cannon fodder is still cannon fodder.
Martin left himself an out, though with this elixir they drink at each meal, so he at least tried to include a supplement to make up for no testosterone, so I let it ride, especially since it now looks like they will play a lesser role in Dani's conquest of Westeros.
This post was edited on 9/23/12 at 10:35 am
Posted on 9/23/12 at 3:56 pm to CottonWasKing
quote:
The slaver states that they used to sell them as household guards but found out that they didn't do well when they weren't in a large group so they quit.
I still wouldn't be shocked if there is a stash of Unsullied Illyrio has somewhere.
Posted on 9/24/12 at 3:31 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
You also have to notice in that same passage that they mention "the woman he loved", but then mention Princess Elia by name as if they are not the same person.
you said this, but then you quoted a passage as this:
quote:
and dying for the women he loved.
Was that a typing error? I don't have my book.
Posted on 9/24/12 at 3:51 pm to Josh Fenderman
Yeah it was an error. Sorry.
Posted on 9/24/12 at 5:18 pm to BluegrassBelle
Rereading the Jon chapter, I saw something that I did not think about before:
In Storm of Swords, we find out that Mance Rayder was there hidden amongst the musicians. I think other authors would have tried to foreshadow this by mentioning how big or how good one of the musicians was. GRRM did not do that, the musicians there were in the background and nobody paid that much attention too them. Like what would happen during a normal feast. I like that he can still pull out surprises like this.
In Storm of Swords, we find out that Mance Rayder was there hidden amongst the musicians. I think other authors would have tried to foreshadow this by mentioning how big or how good one of the musicians was. GRRM did not do that, the musicians there were in the background and nobody paid that much attention too them. Like what would happen during a normal feast. I like that he can still pull out surprises like this.
Posted on 9/25/12 at 11:58 am to ornagestorm
Bump in anticipation of tomorrow. Don't have much from the 3 POV's but did get some reassurance.
Posted on 9/25/12 at 12:48 pm to Mr. Wayne
One thing that jumps out from the Ned and Jon chapters is how important the Benjen Stark character must be....
...or NOT.
Hard to understand how Benjen just disappears after these chapters and becomes...well, nothing.
...or NOT.
Hard to understand how Benjen just disappears after these chapters and becomes...well, nothing.
Posted on 9/25/12 at 1:07 pm to jrodLSUke
I agree there is a lot of attention spent on him to just nonchalantly have him die off in the woods never to be heard from again. Though I am starting to believe we will only see him as an ordinary wight, I still think we will hear of his last few days from someone. We are breaking the rules of the reread, better back off before we get kicked out.
This post was edited on 9/25/12 at 1:08 pm
Posted on 9/25/12 at 4:45 pm to Mr. Wayne
I ain't scared of that Wildcat.
I wonder if Benjen might be used to tell about the Others. We don't know very much about them.
I wonder if Benjen might be used to tell about the Others. We don't know very much about them.
Posted on 9/26/12 at 5:38 am to jrodLSUke
This thread is awesome as well 
I mentioned this in the Crackpot thread but damn Arya throwing rocks at Nymeria and Ned killing Lady is going to be heartbreaking
Does anyone in this thread remember Ned later thinking what a terrible mistake he made by killing the sigil of his house and wondering if he had cursed the Starks or something like that? Please keep an eye out for that on the reread.
Also, the talk about Bloodraven in this got me wondering, does the information on him mainly come from Dunk and Egg?
WOIAF talks about him fighting for the King against his sibling Blackfyres and running Bittersteel off, so why do we think he's so bad?
I know Maegar had him locked up and didn't trust him, but wasn't Maegar kind of bad? I honestly can't remember.
I know Aegon released him and sent him to The Wall to accompany Aemon so he must have trusted him to some extent.
Did he ever make it to The Wall, or did he vanish before then? Just not sure of those details cause haven't read Dunk yet, but would love spoilers on that.
Did Aegon know what Bloodraven planned to do and want him to do it which is why he released him? TIA
I mentioned this in the Crackpot thread but damn Arya throwing rocks at Nymeria and Ned killing Lady is going to be heartbreaking
Does anyone in this thread remember Ned later thinking what a terrible mistake he made by killing the sigil of his house and wondering if he had cursed the Starks or something like that? Please keep an eye out for that on the reread.
Also, the talk about Bloodraven in this got me wondering, does the information on him mainly come from Dunk and Egg?
WOIAF talks about him fighting for the King against his sibling Blackfyres and running Bittersteel off, so why do we think he's so bad?
I know Maegar had him locked up and didn't trust him, but wasn't Maegar kind of bad? I honestly can't remember.
I know Aegon released him and sent him to The Wall to accompany Aemon so he must have trusted him to some extent.
Did he ever make it to The Wall, or did he vanish before then? Just not sure of those details cause haven't read Dunk yet, but would love spoilers on that.
Did Aegon know what Bloodraven planned to do and want him to do it which is why he released him? TIA
Posted on 9/26/12 at 7:57 am to Tiger Voodoo
Crackpot Club Day!
This Eddard chapter is great. Our first look back at the Tower of Joy.
One of my biggest doubts, and it gets raised by a key fact in this chapter, is that Lyanna died during childbirth.
Now I'm no rocket surgeon, so "I don't know nothin' 'bout birthin' babies". But I do know how to drop old movie quotes. And I don't think Lyanna died from a fever because of childbirth.
Lyanna may have had something to do with how Howland Reed saved Ned from Ser Dayne. And that might have involved some sort of wound that caused the fever.
My "butt calling the pot cracked" post for the day. You're welcome.
This Eddard chapter is great. Our first look back at the Tower of Joy.
One of my biggest doubts, and it gets raised by a key fact in this chapter, is that Lyanna died during childbirth.
quote:
Promise me she had cried, in a room that smelled of blood and roses. Promise me, Ned. The fever had taken her strengh and her voice had been faint as a whisper, but when he gave her his word, the fear had gone out of his sister's eyes. Ned remembered the way she had smiled then, how tightly her fingers had clutched his as she gave up her hold on life, the rose petals spilling from her palm, dead and black.
Now I'm no rocket surgeon, so "I don't know nothin' 'bout birthin' babies". But I do know how to drop old movie quotes. And I don't think Lyanna died from a fever because of childbirth.
Lyanna may have had something to do with how Howland Reed saved Ned from Ser Dayne. And that might have involved some sort of wound that caused the fever.
My "butt calling the pot cracked" post for the day. You're welcome.
Posted on 9/26/12 at 8:13 am to jrodLSUke
quote:
Now I'm no rocket surgeon, so "I don't know nothin' 'bout birthin' babies". But I do know how to drop old movie quotes. And I don't think Lyanna died from a fever because of childbirth.
It's possible, but my wife had a fever of about 103 when she delivered our son and they said that was normal. They are very common in childbirth and can be even worse if there are complications.
I have another reinforcing factor for R + L = J.
From the Catelyn II POV:
"Whoever Jon's mother had been, Ned must have loved her fiercely, for nothing Catelyn said would persuade him to send the boy away."
Now explain to me who Ned could have loved so much that he could not bear to dishonor their child. Ashara Dayne? Wylla? They would have been one night stands pretty much and I seriously doubt he had feelings enough to disappoint his wife, who he is obviously very much in love with, throughout the entirety of their marriage. It is mentioned earlier in Ned 1 that Ned loved Lyanna with all of his heart. Yeah that seems to fit with Catelyn's statement.
This post was edited on 9/26/12 at 8:17 am
Posted on 9/26/12 at 8:16 am to jrodLSUke
quote:
Lyanna may have had something to do with how Howland Reed saved Ned from Ser Dayne.
I do think there may be some truth here though. It is mentioned about Ned's guards discussing Ned fighting The Sword of the Morning in single combat. Though that is probably just soldiers telling stories. I highly suspect something went down to allow Ned to defeat Arthur Dayne.
Posted on 9/26/12 at 8:40 am to jrodLSUke
quote:
I don't think Lyanna died from a fever because of childbirth.
Postpartum infection was a very common way to die in the pre-antibiotic and pre-aseptic technique days.
If it was this, she would be febrile within a day or two after delivery and probably die a few days after that. Isn't there also a mention of a "bloody bed"? That would imply postpartum hemorrhage, which would lead to a much quicker death.
IIRC, there is no mention of the time period they spend at the tower after the big fight eh? Just that Ned brings her body back to Winterfell. Could they have stayed there a few days trying to save her before she kicked the bucket?
This post was edited on 9/26/12 at 8:44 am
Page 7 of 10
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News