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Posted on 1/6/22 at 1:36 pm to alpinetiger
I love some amazing and mind blowing visuals of space in movies.
Posted on 1/6/22 at 1:54 pm to sBrodie
quote:
I agree its a great movie.
The most unbelievable part for me, however, was not the 5th dimensional beings or the tesseract, but the seemingly limitless fuel and ease of planet hopping.
Today, it takes us three days to reach the moon and 2 years to reach Mars. These cats are going to Saturn like a trip the store then, going to over planets that I'm not sure is even orbiting the same star. This would take hundreds to thousands of years in reality depending on distance. If the three different Goldilock planets are of different solar systems (stars), if would take near light speed travel to reach them in a single lifetime.
Like major major improvements in battery technology are already happening right now here in the real world. I don't find the powering of the ship in the movie to be unbelievable at all.
Posted on 1/6/22 at 1:54 pm to MidnightVibe
Posted on 1/6/22 at 1:55 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
You can make it to Mars in 8 months if you take the appropriate launch window.
I take the appropriate launch window on your mom
Posted on 1/6/22 at 2:08 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
But there is a present Cooper that we follow along the film. The present Cooper has to make it there somehow without his future self directly interfering.
You're stuck in viewing time as linear, and the fifth dimensional beings ("future" us) access time at all points simultaneously. So future us led him to NASA, which took him on his journey to end up in the tesseract that allowed him to access the bookshelf to give Murph the key to gravity.
Time to the fifth dimensional beings runs similar to the aliens in Arrival I think. They just have access to all points in time simultaneously.
Posted on 1/6/22 at 2:17 pm to CocomoLSU
quote:
You're stuck in viewing time as linear, and the fifth dimensional beings ("future" us) access time at all points simultaneously.
I acknowledge that another Cooper from another dimension could have done it by folding into the 5th dimension, but I still can’t see how our Cooper could have done it.
Posted on 1/6/22 at 2:40 pm to CocomoLSU
quote:
This is correct (at least in my understanding). Once inside the tesseract, Cooper could "access time" at any point. Hence, there is no "time," at least in terms of how we view it. Time exists simultaneously always. There is no "past, present, and future." It's basically just all "present" to put it in our terms of viewing time. That's how he could go to the bookshelf and manipulate the dust into coordinates, the code to solve gravity, etc.
I do agree it creates a paradox in terms of "What sent Coop to NASA to begin with," but the way the movie explains it is that "we" do (humans who eventually elevated into fifth dimensional beings). Why Coop was chosen, we don't know, but I guess maybe it's because of who he was and who is daughter was (and how smart she was, or something simple like that). But that's one of those things that we'll never have an answer for, and weirdly, I don't feel like I need one.
the deeper dimensions provides a non-paradoxical explanation. the time paradox relies on the faults in linear time logic that A has to happen for B to happen, but B has to happen before A can happen. but I agree with your own understanding i bolded quoted parts, it was all simultaneously in the 'present' because of deeper dimension.
length, width, depth are the same exact concept only different perspective. draw a 3d box, you can assign L/W/D to the box with numbers and swap them around, and it will make the same exact box (aka same 3D space). in the tesseract dimension imagine time having dimensions analagous to L/W/D that make up 3D space. the analogs of time can be swapped around like the box from earlier. this explanation works because coop is at a black hole where time is theoretically at/nearing 0 value. in 3d space if one of your dimensions is 0, your space is 0. the tesseract basically allows time from any perspective while still remaining at overall value 0, the present.
TARS exposition that they built this place to access space-time or to correct things, but didnt have the perspective to navigate it as space-time was somewhat meaningless to them without that reference point. I think there is the answer to why he was chosen, bc love. Dr. Brand gravity+love transcend space-time dialogue. the TARS exposition that they built this place but didnt have the right perspective to properly access the right time/place. Love is why he chose to sacrifice himself to the black hole to be there in the first place. He's a foil with Dr. Mann who represents the selfishness/ego of man to self preserve at the expense of others.
basically explanation is the 5th dimension is wild complex but was the vessel for 2 little things called love'n'gravity to save civilization, that sounds pretty groovy.
Posted on 1/6/22 at 2:51 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
I acknowledge that another Cooper from another dimension could have done it by folding into the 5th dimension, but I still can’t see how our Cooper could have done it.
Nobody is saying Cooper did it to himself (or I’m not saying that). I’m saying the future fifth dimensional beings sent the coordinates to him.
Posted on 1/6/22 at 3:06 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
I acknowledge that another Cooper from another dimension could have done it by folding into the 5th dimension, but I still can’t see how our Cooper could have done it.
you are still thinking too linear. 'our' cooper is simultaneously the same cooper from the other dimension. its all the same cooper, just different dimensions of space-time.
draw a 3d box you can swap L/W/D all you want its the same box, its only l/w/d based on your perspective of labeling it, but still same box. now do another layer of the same logic with whatever dimensions of time exist in by the tesseract. coop is doing the same swapping of L/W/D but with dimensions of time. whatever axes of time exist the 'area under the curve' so to speak is equivalent. its the same cooper, he's doing 5d shenanigans at the same overall time value like the same overall box.
the tessaract is a metaphor for love and sacrifice. it was just in a black hole to allow cool movie space stuff and physics 5d time frickery. it was love could transcend time/space, like the tesseract and gravity. theres a lot of dialogue regarding transcending time in the movie and you seem very stuck on linear time. its not a paradox, its just not linear.
Posted on 1/6/22 at 3:07 pm to CocomoLSU
quote:
Nobody is saying Cooper did it to himself (or I’m not saying that). I’m saying the future fifth dimensional beings sent the coordinates to him.
either way works and would not be paradoxical due to deeper dimensions being a valid explanation.
Posted on 1/6/22 at 3:18 pm to Sgt_Lincoln_Osiris
quote:
My question now is "Why?". If humans always survived and evolved into 5th dimensional beings to create the wormhole, why would they care what happened to their caveman non-relatives that died? Saving all of humanity could actually cause them to cease to exist or not evolve to this point.
Either they didn't care, because they would evolve anyway and wanted to make it easier on humanity to get to that point, or since this occurred inside Gargantua, it didn't affect them in their timeline and they continued on. I think this attempts to explain that from the linked article.
quote:
Inside a black hole might be the only place in the entire universe that you could build something like a Tesseract, and then change your own past so that you never existed in the first place to build that Tesseract, but it still exists unaffected by your changes to your own timeline.
How?
I read once (in real life) that if you fell into a black hole, the time dilation would be so large, that you could turn around and watch the entire history of the universe unfold before your eyes in seconds. That’s right, you could watch the universe die, by going into a black hole backwards. From my very limited understanding of the mechanics of black holes, space-time folds over on itself, effectively removing yourself from time itself. This is how I use Gargantua to reconcile all the paradoxes.
Because of infinite time dilation, any changes in space-time would take an infinite amount of time to catch up with anything that exists inside the singularity. It’s like recursively walking half the distance between you and an object, you get close, but it’s impossible for you to actually touch the object if you did that.
So time is trying to catch up to the Tesseract to make it not exist anymore, but it will never catch up, because by being in a black hole, the Tesseract is effectively in a protected bubble outside of space-time.
The beings knew that, and that’s why they didn’t build the Tesseract and place it somewhere to be found in regular space-time. If they put it in regular space-time and then changed their past, it would instantly cease to exist, thus such an action would be impossible.
Basically there’s a new time travel rule: Timeline alteration in regular space-time is impossible, but time travel in a black hole is possible because you’re detached from the timeline. I’m only intuiting here, it makes gut-level sense to me, but I don’t have the expertise to work out the math.
This is movie closure we’re talking about here, not trying to win a Nobel Prize.
Remember when Cooper said to Brand, “I don’t think either of us has time to worry about Relativity anymore”? He said that because their mission was in shambles, and time was dilated too much by them getting too close to the event horizon. Basically at that point in time, they could consider everyone on Earth dead already.
Cooper’s only chance to save Earth, would be to go into the Tesseract and make the one final change that the Tesseract had planned for him to make.
This post was edited on 1/6/22 at 3:21 pm
Posted on 1/6/22 at 4:06 pm to CocomoLSU
quote:
I’m saying the future fifth dimensional beings sent the coordinates to him.
But he sent them to himself, which he shouldn’t be able to do that unless it’s an alternate version of Cooper.
Posted on 1/6/22 at 4:14 pm to OMLandshark
Loved it then and still do now. Just can't turn it off.
#1 problem with movie? How disinterested Cooper's family acted when he entered the hospital room. He's literally their great great grandad. It really took me out of the moment more than ANYTHING.
They would know him, because there's a damn museum of his old farm and house
#1 problem with movie? How disinterested Cooper's family acted when he entered the hospital room. He's literally their great great grandad. It really took me out of the moment more than ANYTHING.
They would know him, because there's a damn museum of his old farm and house
Posted on 1/6/22 at 4:18 pm to YumYum Sauce
quote:
#1 problem with movie? How disinterested Cooper's family acted when he entered the hospital room. He's literally their great great grandad. It really took me out of the moment more than ANYTHING.
He could have met some of them before the hospital scene, it’s just Murph wasn’t at the station at the time. I think that one can easily be written off.
Posted on 1/6/22 at 9:01 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
But he sent them to himself, which he shouldn’t be able to do that unless it’s an alternate version of Cooper.
He sent them to his past self, so that he would not get stuck in the black hole forever. The past had to be preserved so that doesn't change.
Posted on 1/6/22 at 10:31 pm to meeple
quote:
He sent them to his past self, so that he would not get stuck in the black hole forever. The past had to be preserved so that doesn't change.
But that’s the STAY and Plan A, not the coordinates to NASA. Again, the former two work, but not the last.
Posted on 1/7/22 at 2:10 am to sBrodie
quote:there are reasons they could do it just not enough time to explain in the movie. it's theoretical right now but they were treating it as future reality.
This would take hundreds to thousands of years in reality depending on distance. If the three different Goldilock planets are of different solar systems (stars), if would take near light speed travel to reach them in a single lifetime.
Posted on 1/7/22 at 3:24 am to OMLandshark
quote:
But that’s the STAY and Plan A, not the coordinates to NASA. Again, the former two work, but not the last.
Your only confused bc your still 110% dedicated to linear time axis logic like LOST. which doesn't apply to deeper dimensions where time isn't linear like in the tesseract.
He used gravity to send those signals, gravity TRANSCENDS time and space. It's not a time paradox because the gravity force is not even occuring in the same dimensional plane as time. That's why the 5d beings needed him, he had the necessary perspective points to reference the space to act upon.
I suppose idk how to break you free from the flawed use of linear time logic, when there there was even TARS spoon-feeding you the fact that in the tesseract time was multidimensional.
Posted on 1/7/22 at 7:34 am to alpinetiger
Saw this thread and it drove me to re-watch with headphones and subtitles. Much better than I remember back when it came out except for the fact it wasn't a big screen experience.
The story made much more sense now and the score was simply awesome.
Great movie!
The story made much more sense now and the score was simply awesome.
Great movie!
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