re: Captain America: Civil War RT Watch | 92% (213-19) 7.7 avg

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I'm starting to give up on the idea of a good villain in an MCU movie. If I had to guess, they just don't want to devote the screen time necessary to flesh one out when they're already paying the good guys so much money.

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They did really well with Loki, Stane, Abomination (underrated...but that might be becauseof Tim Roth). Loki is clearly the standout.

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I don't think it's coincidence that we're getting better villains from the format with more time to fill.

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But yeah Kilgrave, Kingpin, even Nobu are all awesome.

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They did really well with Loki, Stane, Abomination (underrated...but that might be becauseof Tim Roth). Loki is clearly the standout.

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That the Iron Man franchise has kind of gone back to the same well for the villain every time made me forget about Stane. Darren Cross was pretty good in Ant Man too I guess.

Ronan was significantly underused and under developed in Guardians (as much as I liked the movie). Red Skull was meh. Whiplash was underdeveloped. Malakeith was meh (and I liked Thor 2 more than most).

Jeremy Johns is now in a Twitter battle.

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Austin Putnam ?@AustinPPutnam 2h2 hours ago Already seeing the "you were paid by marvel to give Civil War a rave review" on @JeremyJahns review.

John McGraw ?@bluskadooshbag 20m20 minutes ago
@AustinPPutnam @JeremyJahns He was paid. Hell if Disney sent me to a FREE screening, I'd kiss their arse 2.

Jeremy JahnsVerified account @JeremyJahns
. @bluskadooshbag Lol. Your opinion & integrity would be for sale for the price of a movie ticket? Set the bar a LITTLE higher dude.

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Wow.

Daredevil is my favorite Marvel Movie/TV Show because it's dark, gritty, has great character arcs, and fantastic villains. The stakes seem very high in each episode for the heroes.

The Avengers movies, while entertaining, never had high stakes because the tone of the movies made it feel like everything would be okay. While that is great for some people, I personally prefer a story that challenges the heroes to dig into the depths of their very soul for the strength to accomplish their mission. I don't like it when the movie or TV show makes it look easy for the protagonists. That's just me though.

That is why I prefer each and every one of Nolan's Batman movies to anything the MCU has to offer. There are high stakes in all three of those movies.

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Going in I knew Batman was going to win in every single one of those

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Congratulations. So did everyone else. When you go into a comic book movie you automatically assume the hero is going to win. Problem is, Batman *loses* in The Dark Knight.

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Oh no. Don't give me that. He came at me and attacked my opinion as idiocy. Go back and read my comments. I was going at him pretty hard because he came at me with personal insults. I didn't go at anyone else like that.

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Now I just think you're trolling me. This is all a ploy right?

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to an extent. A LOT of the sequel movies suffered from their piss poor villains. ant man even had a bland villain that brought an otherwise great movie down some. their target audience doesnt demand a complex villain, so i get it.

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I disagree though. The most famous villains of all time - Lecter, Vader, etc. - are layered and even complex, but still simple in who they really are.

I think the issue is that Disney is really trying to downplay real "evil," they aren't being weird like they used to with Malificent, Scar, etc. in their animated films. Honestly, I think this is a subtle effect of all the SJW/inclusive/politically correct thought police and Disney is pretty much aligned with that.

Sokovia was made up specifically for the movie so that we could avoid - any political interpretations, insults against Eastern Europeans, European bad guys, etc. There is no Sokovia in the comic books (unless I'm overlooking something).

So I think it has to do with Disney more than their audience.

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a prime example is this board. one guy said he doesnt even want complex plots.

"thanos finds the stones. avengers must fight and stop him. end film."

unfortunately it seems most audiences agree with that guy. however, they really are doing a disservice to their villains. its why their tv shows are so great. GREAT VILLAINS!

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Well I agree and disagree. Stories don't have to be intricate, or have a lot of threads to be complex or have depth and meaning. It's just how you do it. Loki is a fairly simple villain, but he's layered. As above, so is Vader. They just haven't captured that again because it's so hard to do.

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Problem is, Batman *loses* in The Dark Knight.

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He doesn't lose. Maggie G bites and he can't come up with a better way of stopping Two Face other than using him to cushion a fall but he still stops the Joker from executing his plan and saves the city. Winner winner chicken dinner.

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So either I wasn't a raving lunatic about MoS, or we both are?

Either one is ok by me.

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I admit I have not had a reaction to a movie like this before. I didn't know I had it in me. I think we're just two guys who love our comic movies.

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thats my point, though. Great villains are layered and complex. Marvel/Disney's are not. Maybe Loki is but he's not involved so much anymore. He was in 2 films.

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Yeah I'm just saying two things 1) Complexity doesn't automatically equal "better" 2) Complexity isn't a marker of something being interesting

So I don't think Marvel needs to necessarily focus on "complex" villains, just better ones. That's all.

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Well, not to sound rude but "duh." Of course it depends on "how you do it." That is a very generic argument and mostly common sense. Disney has not "done it well." But they also have not tried to in regards to their villains. How many one-note, corporate villains have they had?

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Yeah not communicating on this one well, my fault. All I mean is that complexity isn't necessarily the answer, that's all. Simple villains can be interesting, they can be layered. But yeah, Disney isn't doing that.