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re: American Nightmare — Netflix documentary
Posted on 1/20/24 at 8:51 am to Riverparishbaw
Posted on 1/20/24 at 8:51 am to Riverparishbaw
Muller never said why he targeted the Ex Fiancé.. could be covering for someone else
1
Posted on 1/20/24 at 8:53 am to Miganey
Miller seems to always go after brunettes. The ex seemed to be a brunette right?
Posted on 1/20/24 at 9:09 am to lsupride87
Posted on 1/20/24 at 9:50 am to Cliff Booth
I’m curious if agent Sesma served in the Marines or went to Harvard before joining the FBI.
Posted on 1/20/24 at 10:09 am to pwejr88
quote:
And they never cleared up why Andrea was the target.
They never clearly spelled it out but I think Muller's M.O. was simply to identify a random target he was attracted to and stalk them. The other victims said he knew their name and other stuff about them. And they talked about the peeping Tom cases in the area where someone was hiding in bushes and taking photos. Also addresses in his car GPS. This wasn't an impulse case.
Some of these guys enjoy the "hunt" more than the kill. It makes them feel smart, talented and successful. It's an ego trip, especially for someone who is a failure at life.
That's probably why he was sending information and photos to that crime reporter. It bothered him that his master plan was being casually dismissed as a hoax. And it probably bothered him that his cherished trophy - that he had personally selected as special - was being derided as awful even despite the fact that he grabbed the wrong girl.
I'm glad they caught him because this guy probably would have graduated to serial killing. Lots of them start off with small thrill seeking deviant behavior like Peeping Tom, shoplifting or starting fires before seeking out a bigger rush and reward on the psychopath ladder.
quote:
Sesma was absolutely involved because we was/had dated her.
I'm a little skeptical of this claim. It's obviously a conflict of interest and he should have removed himself from the case but the documentary was a little too vague about his involvement in the investigation. And "dating" in the modern age is not what it was in the past. It's an online hookup culture where people spin around the dating site carousel. Did they have a romantic relationship or was she just some random skank he swiped on Tinder one night? I feel like if there was more to that angle, Netflix would have played it up hard. But they don't do objectivity well.
And that Andrea girl was made it out to be sinister despite the fact that she was probably just an innocent victim who dodged a bullet. Also, dollars to donuts the perfect boyfriend (now husband) was going back to that well and cheating (not just emotionally) with his ex. That's probably why Muller expected her there. Again, Netflix glossed over that angle.
Posted on 1/20/24 at 12:13 pm to AUFANATL
After sleeping on it, if a loved one is ever kidnapped and the kidnappers are trying to contact me about a ransom - I hope the police or FBI decide not to put my smartphone into airplane mode like they did in this case.
I did have four questions that I wish they would have explained:
1) The blood they found in the house and missing comforter? The Detective mentions those but they don’t ever at least try to explain after the big reveal who has gotten injured and was bleeding.
2) Did the blood test on the boyfriend confirm the sedated medicine that he was given?
3) The camera in the bedroom that was to keep him from calling the police. Why didn’t we ever get to see what the real one looked like from the evidence instead of one from the reenactment?
4) The surveillance camera of her walking back to the Huntington Beach home. What bags were she carrying? Did the abductor pack some things for her?
I did have four questions that I wish they would have explained:
1) The blood they found in the house and missing comforter? The Detective mentions those but they don’t ever at least try to explain after the big reveal who has gotten injured and was bleeding.
2) Did the blood test on the boyfriend confirm the sedated medicine that he was given?
3) The camera in the bedroom that was to keep him from calling the police. Why didn’t we ever get to see what the real one looked like from the evidence instead of one from the reenactment?
4) The surveillance camera of her walking back to the Huntington Beach home. What bags were she carrying? Did the abductor pack some things for her?
Posted on 1/20/24 at 1:34 pm to UncleLester
quote:
4) The surveillance camera of her walking back to the Huntington Beach home. What bags were she carrying? Did the abductor pack some things for her?
I literally asked myself that question out loud at the moment I saw that scene
Posted on 1/20/24 at 2:26 pm to HoustonGumbeauxGuy
Could be a change of clothes they gave her. I doubt she was involved
Posted on 1/20/24 at 2:27 pm to AUFANATL
You have a lot of confirmation bias, which was one of the themes of this doc ironically.
I mean prior marine, Harvard law graduate. I don’t think his psychological behavior stemmed from being a failure at life. His desires were likely present throughout his whole life and doing well in life likely helped facilitate his desires. His creepiness predates his disbarment which, imo, provides some credence to my theory.
I don’t think his thing was killing. Everything he had was a prop. His climax (sorry, no pun intended) was rape. I think he concocted the story of needing a video for collateral to Denise so he wouldn’t feel bad raping her. I think that’s backed by the scene with the other girl who he let go came up.
quote:
especially for someone who is a failure at life.
I mean prior marine, Harvard law graduate. I don’t think his psychological behavior stemmed from being a failure at life. His desires were likely present throughout his whole life and doing well in life likely helped facilitate his desires. His creepiness predates his disbarment which, imo, provides some credence to my theory.
quote:
I'm glad they caught him because this guy probably would have graduated to serial killing. Lots of them start off with small thrill seeking deviant behavior like Peeping Tom, shoplifting or starting fires before seeking out a bigger rush and reward on the psychopath ladder.
I don’t think his thing was killing. Everything he had was a prop. His climax (sorry, no pun intended) was rape. I think he concocted the story of needing a video for collateral to Denise so he wouldn’t feel bad raping her. I think that’s backed by the scene with the other girl who he let go came up.
Posted on 1/20/24 at 3:37 pm to Hookah
I'm an arm-chair FBI agent since I watch a lot of these type shows, both fiction and real......but why wasn't the cell phone and email tracked? Seems like easy police work. Somewhere in the doc the cell phones was reportedly 200ft from the hide way house.
I get the "tunnel vision" stuff, but elementary police procedures should've uncovered more clues/leads.
I get the "tunnel vision" stuff, but elementary police procedures should've uncovered more clues/leads.
Posted on 1/20/24 at 4:51 pm to sosaysmorvant
quote:
but why wasn't the cell phone and email tracked? Seems like easy police work. Somewhere in the doc the cell phones was reportedly 200ft from the hide way house.
Because the story sounded unbelievable. Dublin PD gets a lot of credit but I suspect without that home invasion in their town where the father ran muller off, even they wouldn’t have believed Aaron’s story.
Posted on 1/20/24 at 6:49 pm to Riverparishbaw
quote:
Sesma was involved. His involvement explains the apathy of the FBI and how quickly the case went silent.
An incredible coincidence that the FBI investigator had dated the girl they were actually looking to abduct. Must have been others involved.
Posted on 1/23/24 at 12:24 am to RougeDawg
This story was first covered in 2 parts on the Criminal podcast 3 years ago:
48 Hours
I noticed today she had pushed it back to the top of the feed - evidently because American Nightmare just came out.
The podcast has a few details that were simply not mentioned in the show. Here's one:
Aaron's BROTHER was FBI and he was brought down almost immediately to the police station. In the podcast, it seems like that never really goes anywhere, but it's pretty weird it's not mentioned in the show. I mean, it might be as easy as "the brother hates the FBI now and did not want to risk running further afoul of them". But still.
I think the podcast also alleges that Muller had created recordings of other voices to make it seem as if there were a group. That seems plausible to me. There's very little evidence of group action.
48 Hours
I noticed today she had pushed it back to the top of the feed - evidently because American Nightmare just came out.
quote:
An incredible coincidence that the FBI investigator had dated the girl they were actually looking to abduct. Must have been others involved.
The podcast has a few details that were simply not mentioned in the show. Here's one:
Aaron's BROTHER was FBI and he was brought down almost immediately to the police station. In the podcast, it seems like that never really goes anywhere, but it's pretty weird it's not mentioned in the show. I mean, it might be as easy as "the brother hates the FBI now and did not want to risk running further afoul of them". But still.
I think the podcast also alleges that Muller had created recordings of other voices to make it seem as if there were a group. That seems plausible to me. There's very little evidence of group action.
Posted on 1/23/24 at 12:31 am to WhiskeyThrottle
quote:Nah. These LEO should be trained to know that people's emotional states (including their own) are entirely unpredictable and there is no "right" or "normal" reaction. I mean, he was likely quite sleep deprived AND had been drugged.
Also, watching Aaron's testimony with the police, he is less emotional/angry/scared than I would be. People handle things differently, but calm isn't normal IMO.
It's hard to internalize, but you actually have no idea how you would be (and neither do I). Sitting there, watching the show, of course I'm thinking "say this! do that! explain this part!". But I'm also not in the middle of the single biggest trauma of my life.
Just look at how often false confessions are obtained.
Posted on 1/23/24 at 1:17 am to Hookah
quote:
Because the story sounded unbelievable.
Muller did a good job of setting up facts that would be completely unbelievable. I am not absolving the police but if that fact pattern had been released on tOT 99% of the posters would have been ready to fry Quinn and then Haskins when she showed back up. Quinn's account was crazy enough but Haskins' was next-level crazy from the outside looking in. Dublin police backed into the case without having to fight through the ridiculous fact pattern.
Conflict of interest aside we all fall prey to confirmation bias every day but detectives should do everything they can to avoid it. I did learn that if you want to commit a crime and get away with it then set up a situation that when the victim tells the facts it presents a story that is completely unbelievable.
Posted on 1/23/24 at 2:26 am to UncleLester
quote:
4) The surveillance camera of her walking back to the Huntington Beach home. What bags were she carrying? Did the abductor pack some things for her?
They actually did a follow up about stuff that wasn’t on the Netflix special that was pretty interesting.
The bag was packed by the 2 abductors (they are adamant that there was more than one abductor). They dropped her off at a neighborhood and threatened her if she looked back.
The abduction was over the course of a few hours. It wasn’t like they just came in and took her.
The “music” that was played in the their was actually a voice with instructions telling both of them what to do.
Aaron Quinn called his brother before police. His brother is an also an FBI agent and told him that he needed to call the local police.
He actually was tied up with zip ties and had to cut himself free on a corner.
In the house the abductors taped off areas of the house and placed cameras around. They told Aaron that they were watching him and he couldn’t leave the taped areas.
This post was edited on 1/23/24 at 2:27 am
Posted on 1/23/24 at 2:42 am to HoustonGumbeauxGuy
quote:
Didn’t realize the astronomical incompetency of the police and FBI out there in California,
Then you've never heard of this.
"The case was part of day-care sex-abuse hysteria, a moral panic over alleged Satanic ritual abuse in the 1980s." The Parents and interviewing Psychologists suggested to children that the school had underground tunnels for Satanic rituals, daycare employees flew in the air and had sex with animals.
McMartin preschool witch hunt hoax
The media, the California authorities, California judicial system all conspired to ruin peoples lives. It is the longest trial in American history...7 years. Until all the charges were dropped. You would think of course the media would jump on this and sell it but the police, FBI and judicial system?
This post was edited on 1/23/24 at 3:01 am
Posted on 1/23/24 at 10:57 am to Obtuse1
quote:But why would the police put his phone on airplane mode and not even make the very slightest attempts to tie loose ends?
Muller did a good job of setting up facts that would be completely unbelievable. I am not absolving the police but if that fact pattern had been released on tOT 99% of the posters would have been ready to fry Quinn and then Haskins when she showed back up. Quinn's account was crazy enough but Haskins' was next-level crazy from the outside looking in. Dublin police backed into the case without having to fight through the ridiculous fact pattern.
Posted on 1/23/24 at 4:59 pm to Big Scrub TX
the story was interesting, and i felt for the main characters for sure.
But you could tell every interaction and item was told in such a way to tell the intended narrative.
They found the most bizarre story they could to push back on the pushback of the #metoo movement.
But you could tell every interaction and item was told in such a way to tell the intended narrative.
They found the most bizarre story they could to push back on the pushback of the #metoo movement.
Posted on 1/23/24 at 5:26 pm to Hester Carries
quote:
But you could tell every interaction and item was told in such a way to tell the intended narrative.
They found the most bizarre story they could to push back on the pushback of the #metoo movement.
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