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Message
re: A Dance With Dragons - Official Post-release SPOILER Thread
Posted on 9/19/11 at 11:53 am to CottonWasKing
Posted on 9/19/11 at 11:53 am to CottonWasKing
Just finished ADWD over the weekend and read through this thread. I might rehash some stuff in this post, but I wanted to maybe recap all the POV characters so I can be sure of where everyone is at heading into the next book which should come out anywhere between 1-20 years from now. I always find it's easiest to start at the northern part of Westeros, head south, then east.
Bran - still underground with the 3 eyed crow. I really have no clue where GRRM is going with this. Seems like all he did in ADWD is freak out Theon.
Jon - Either dead or severely wounded. Like mentioned earlier, there is no way he can be dead, even in a GRRM book. I guess we can assume one of the wildlings saved him or Melisandre will resurrect him.
Davos - I saw someone mention Skagos. Did I just miss where this is mentioned as his place to go searching for Rickon?
Theon and Asha - We assume they are still with Stannis, whose army may or may not be crushed. I guess it all just depends on the accuracy of Ramsey's letter. Here is a question I had in regard to Winterfell. Ramsey claims he has Mance. Was Mance the singer that commandeered Theon to get faux Arya out? The Ramsey letter made this make sense in my head, but I felt like the timing was off between when Melisandre sent him and when he first appeared at Winterfell. Maybe I just missed something.
Stoneheart/Jaime/Brienne - Somewhere in Riverun. I guess we will find out early in the next book if Brienne brought Jaime back to Stoneheart or not.
Cersei - Awaiting trial in KL with the Mountain Monster as her champion. Tyrells and Lannisters about to go at it, thanks in part to Varys.
Connington - In the Roost with Aegon. People in this thread aren't sure it was him. I guess I was just naive in reading it as, yeah that is him because they said it. Whatever the case, they are trying to align with Dorne.
Samwell - In Oldtown with presumably Jaqen and one of the sand snakes. Not really sure where this is going either.
Hotah - Dorne is waiting to hear back from dead Qwentyn(sp). Martel has sent out all the sand snakes to do his bidding around Westeros.
Victarion - Is it just me or did nothing happen in ADWD for him. He is still trying to find Dany, but now he has a fire priest with him.
Tyrion - Same thing with Tyrion but now he has Brown Ben Plumm and his army with him. Is Plumm supposed to be able to control the dragons?
Selmy - Being a badass in Mereen. What was the mission he sent Arch and Drinkwater on?
Dany - Is she now the khaleesi of the khal that found her? She either had a miscariage or can now have children. Are we to assume she plans on taking back Mereen with this khal?
Sorry for the length. That actually helped me sort things out by writing it all out.
ETA - Forgot Arya - I guess she is just becoming a badass assassin. Hopefully she will return to Westeros in the next book.
Forgot Sansa as well - Same place she was at the end of AFFC, or am I forgetting a Sansa chapter mixed in there in ADWD?
Bran - still underground with the 3 eyed crow. I really have no clue where GRRM is going with this. Seems like all he did in ADWD is freak out Theon.
Jon - Either dead or severely wounded. Like mentioned earlier, there is no way he can be dead, even in a GRRM book. I guess we can assume one of the wildlings saved him or Melisandre will resurrect him.
Davos - I saw someone mention Skagos. Did I just miss where this is mentioned as his place to go searching for Rickon?
Theon and Asha - We assume they are still with Stannis, whose army may or may not be crushed. I guess it all just depends on the accuracy of Ramsey's letter. Here is a question I had in regard to Winterfell. Ramsey claims he has Mance. Was Mance the singer that commandeered Theon to get faux Arya out? The Ramsey letter made this make sense in my head, but I felt like the timing was off between when Melisandre sent him and when he first appeared at Winterfell. Maybe I just missed something.
Stoneheart/Jaime/Brienne - Somewhere in Riverun. I guess we will find out early in the next book if Brienne brought Jaime back to Stoneheart or not.
Cersei - Awaiting trial in KL with the Mountain Monster as her champion. Tyrells and Lannisters about to go at it, thanks in part to Varys.
Connington - In the Roost with Aegon. People in this thread aren't sure it was him. I guess I was just naive in reading it as, yeah that is him because they said it. Whatever the case, they are trying to align with Dorne.
Samwell - In Oldtown with presumably Jaqen and one of the sand snakes. Not really sure where this is going either.
Hotah - Dorne is waiting to hear back from dead Qwentyn(sp). Martel has sent out all the sand snakes to do his bidding around Westeros.
Victarion - Is it just me or did nothing happen in ADWD for him. He is still trying to find Dany, but now he has a fire priest with him.
Tyrion - Same thing with Tyrion but now he has Brown Ben Plumm and his army with him. Is Plumm supposed to be able to control the dragons?
Selmy - Being a badass in Mereen. What was the mission he sent Arch and Drinkwater on?
Dany - Is she now the khaleesi of the khal that found her? She either had a miscariage or can now have children. Are we to assume she plans on taking back Mereen with this khal?
Sorry for the length. That actually helped me sort things out by writing it all out.
ETA - Forgot Arya - I guess she is just becoming a badass assassin. Hopefully she will return to Westeros in the next book.
Forgot Sansa as well - Same place she was at the end of AFFC, or am I forgetting a Sansa chapter mixed in there in ADWD?
This post was edited on 9/19/11 at 11:57 am
4
Posted on 9/19/11 at 11:57 am to DestrehanTiger
quote:
Was Mance the singer that commandeered Theon to get faux Arya out?
Yes, though whether or not he was captured by Ramsey remains to be seen.
Posted on 9/19/11 at 1:01 pm to DestrehanTiger
quote:
Connington - In the Roost with Aegon. People in this thread aren't sure it was him. I guess I was just naive in reading it as, yeah that is him because they said it. Whatever the case, they are trying to align with Dorne.
Early on, I was certain that Aegon would turn out to be the "mummer's dragon", but Connington seems to really believe that he's Rhaegar's son. I'm still a skeptic but not as certain as I was.
Maybe if Connington were really drinking himself to death as thought in Westeros, and Varys or Illyrio showed up with a silver-haired toddler they claimed was Aegon, Connington just accepted it without too much consideration because it gave him a reason to live? I'm really thinking Aegon is of the female line of Blackfyres. It was quite pointedly noted that the male line died out in the War of the Ninepenny Kings.
quote:
Was Mance the singer that commandeered Theon to get faux Arya out? The Ramsey letter made this make sense in my head, but I felt like the timing was off between when Melisandre sent him and when he first appeared at Winterfell.
I don't see how else Ramsay would know it was Mance. Spies among Stannis' northern allies maybe?
Posted on 9/19/11 at 1:03 pm to PsychTiger
quote:
Victarion - Is it just me or did nothing happen in ADWD for him. He is still trying to find Dany, but now he has a fire priest with him.
I actually found his second point of view chapter really exciting. It was the Iron Fleet doing what it does... whooping arse, taking ships, taking slaves, fricking people up... and Vicatarion was rolling 7's the whole time. It was MONEY!
Posted on 9/19/11 at 1:03 pm to shinerfan
quote:
Early on, I was certain that Aegon would turn out to be the "mummer's dragon",
What is the story behind this again? Was it one of the visions in the House of the Undying?
I actually think I'm going to start back over with AGOT tonight.
Posted on 9/19/11 at 1:05 pm to DestrehanTiger
quote:
Was it one of the visions in the House of the Undying?
yes, in CoK.
Posted on 9/19/11 at 1:07 pm to DestrehanTiger
quote:
Was it one of the visions in the House of the Undying?
Yes. Dany saw "a cloth dragon swayed on poles amid a cheering crowd"
Posted on 9/19/11 at 1:15 pm to DestrehanTiger
It felt like Bran had little to no point at all in this one. Shows up at the 3 eyed crow, tries to talk to Theon, that's it? With all of the early talk about how he will fly, I wonder if he will end up connecting to one of the dragons.
Jon is being set up to be the Azor guy reborn that Melisandrei keeps saying is Stannis. Supposedly he will be reborn in fire, and bodies at the wall get burned for safety. My only draw back to thinking this is every time you think you know where GRRM is going, he cuts Ned's head off.
Davos going to Skagos was mentioned I do believe, yeah.
I don't buy into Stannis/Theon/Asha having been crushed, mainly because it's hard for me to believe that Mance would have revealed himself. A little flaying may go a long way, and perhaps it's more likely that he went over to Ramsey's side. I'm really not sure where this part is going at all.
Jon is being set up to be the Azor guy reborn that Melisandrei keeps saying is Stannis. Supposedly he will be reborn in fire, and bodies at the wall get burned for safety. My only draw back to thinking this is every time you think you know where GRRM is going, he cuts Ned's head off.
Davos going to Skagos was mentioned I do believe, yeah.
I don't buy into Stannis/Theon/Asha having been crushed, mainly because it's hard for me to believe that Mance would have revealed himself. A little flaying may go a long way, and perhaps it's more likely that he went over to Ramsey's side. I'm really not sure where this part is going at all.
Posted on 9/19/11 at 1:30 pm to DestrehanTiger
quote:
Samwell - In Oldtown with presumably Jaqen and one of the sand snakes. Not really sure where this is going either.
Did I miss something? Why are we assuming Sam is with an assassin and one of the Vipers daughters?
The only (important) familiar face I remember from that offshoot group of maesters was a Tyrell. The head guy headed for Danearys, and the young apprentice from the prolouge was mentioned as well.
Did I miss something?
This post was edited on 9/19/11 at 1:33 pm
Posted on 9/19/11 at 1:32 pm to Eternalmajin
quote:
Jon is being set up to be the Azor guy reborn that Melisandrei keeps saying is Stannis. Supposedly he will be reborn in fire,
Daenerys? Or do you think Jon raises Dragons?
This post was edited on 9/19/11 at 1:34 pm
Posted on 9/19/11 at 1:38 pm to MSMHater
quote:
Why are we assuming Sam is with an assassin and one of the Vipers daughters?
SPOLERS - It's not really spoilers because it is all stuff from the first 5 books, but it is broken down by people that clearly read the books more than once. So, if you want to possibly be surprised by something that is not quite under your nose, don't read on.
It wasn't something I picked up on myself, but read on towerofthehand. At the beginning of AFFC the acolyte is killed by an assassin, then the person that was killed is in Old Town with Sam. The website assumes it is Jaquen taking on the appearance of the acolye. Also, the character that calls "himself" the sphynx is named Alleras. One of the sand snakes is named Sarella, which is Alleras backwards. They also describe the character as being Dornish and having similar traits to Oberyn. Here is the article
LINK
This post was edited on 9/19/11 at 1:39 pm
Posted on 9/19/11 at 1:42 pm to Eternalmajin
quote:
I wonder if he will end up connecting to one of the dragons.
That would be pretty cool, and I hope it turns out that way. I hope his "flying" wasn't just done by becoming a crow.
Posted on 9/19/11 at 1:52 pm to DestrehanTiger
quote:
At the beginning of AFFC the acolyte is killed by an assassin, then the person that was killed is in Old Town with Sam. The website assumes it is Jaquen taking on the appearance of the acolye.
Ok. Makes sense. I thought that may have been Alleras, and that Pike (or whatever his name was) wasn't actually killed, just brought into that offshoot order of Maesters. A thought reinforced by Alleras clearly seperating his group from the main ones in the citadel. but, maybe not...
quote:
Also, the character that calls "himself" the sphynx is named Alleras, One of the sand snakes is named Sarella, which is Alleras backwards.
Also makes sense, though I can't get the link to come up. If true, why dart for Mereen based on Sams story? I guess b/c he doesn't already know about Qwynten's (?) journey, and may be thinking along the same lines as Prince Martell.
This post was edited on 9/19/11 at 2:00 pm
Posted on 9/19/11 at 2:00 pm to Eternalmajin
quote:
every time you think you know where GRRM is going, he cuts Ned's head off.
Posted on 9/19/11 at 2:01 pm to MSMHater
Spoilers
The description of the "alchemist" who kills Pate in the prologue to AFFC matches the description of Jaquen when he changes his face in Clash.
The description of the "alchemist" who kills Pate in the prologue to AFFC matches the description of Jaquen when he changes his face in Clash.
Posted on 9/19/11 at 2:02 pm to DestrehanTiger
quote:
At the beginning of AFFC the acolyte is killed by an assassin, then the person that was killed is in Old Town with Sam.
Also Pate's description of the alchemist exactly matches Arya's description of Jaquen's new face, righ down to the crescent shaped scar on one cheek.
Posted on 9/19/11 at 2:03 pm to shinerfan
quote:
The description of the "alchemist" who kills Pate in the prologue to AFFC matches the description of Jaquen when he changes his face in Clash.
Dayumm! Completely missed that. Good. I liked him.
Posted on 9/19/11 at 3:01 pm to MSMHater
quote:
Daenerys? Or do you think Jon raises Dragons?
I'm not sure the connection with Jon and the Azor tale is raising stone dragons when he returns, but I have a few guesses.
Mel's power grew considerably when she was at the wall. Though we know the wall is a magical creation to keep the walkers north, I wonder if she wasn't reacting more to Jon being the one chosen to come back as Azor. If it was the wall, and with the comments made through the last 3 books of magic increasing since the dragons returned, it makes me wonder what's inside that wall that lets it continue to defend itself.
Or the rising of the stone dragons will just be another metaphor, like the whole "sun rise in the west and set in the east" thing that seems to be happening.
Posted on 9/19/11 at 3:11 pm to Eternalmajin
quote:
Or the rising of the stone dragons will just be another metaphor, like the whole "sun rise in the west and set in the east" thing that seems to be happening.
Comments like these and the one about the tears of the betrayer being the salt needed to rebirth Ahai make me glad I have this in addition to the book. I never would have thought that deep to realize the connection between Dorne being the sun and having Qwentyn setting in the east by dying.
At first, the idea of rereading seemed tedious, but after realizing how much stuff I probably missed, I'm looking forward to it.
Posted on 9/19/11 at 4:08 pm to MSMHater
When Mel was asking her fires to show her Azor Azai reborn (trying to find out where stannis was) all it showed her was jons face.
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