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What's the actual "tush push" story?
Posted on 11/6/23 at 10:40 am
Posted on 11/6/23 at 10:40 am
First of all, why did they stop calling it "Bush push"?
Second, what special skill/scheme does Philly have that every team can't just at least quasi-emulate it. Case in point: last night, the Bengals - on 4th and inches - tried a QB sneak...with an empty backfield!
I don't care if Hurts is supposedly stronger than the average QB. Even before this was legal, it was still common practice to load the backfield with a bunch of weight in these situations and have everyone surge forward.
Seriously, what is actually different now?
Second, what special skill/scheme does Philly have that every team can't just at least quasi-emulate it. Case in point: last night, the Bengals - on 4th and inches - tried a QB sneak...with an empty backfield!
I don't care if Hurts is supposedly stronger than the average QB. Even before this was legal, it was still common practice to load the backfield with a bunch of weight in these situations and have everyone surge forward.
Seriously, what is actually different now?
11
Posted on 11/6/23 at 10:47 am to Big Scrub TX
Hurts is strong and has the best center in the league
a standard QB sneak is going to have less men in the box
a standard QB sneak is going to have less men in the box
Posted on 11/6/23 at 10:48 am to Dire Wolf
quote:This combo is such an outlier that nobody else can do this?
Hurts is strong and has the best center in the league
Posted on 11/6/23 at 10:48 am to Big Scrub TX
Jalen Hurts squating nearly 600 lbs is not replicable
Posted on 11/6/23 at 10:50 am to Big Scrub TX
Did you see Burrow try to run a similar version last night? He almost had his season ended by this monster on the Bills d line.
The Bengals faces several huge 3rd and 4th and 1's later in the half and never used Burrow again. And that was a must-win game.
The Bengals faces several huge 3rd and 4th and 1's later in the half and never used Burrow again. And that was a must-win game.
This post was edited on 11/6/23 at 10:51 am
Posted on 11/6/23 at 10:53 am to SirWinston
quote:
that was a must-win game.
Week 9 games are must-win now? Lol
Posted on 11/6/23 at 10:55 am to Big Scrub TX
I think the key is Kelce and the guards. He is able to snap the ball and they are all able to get low enough to essentially cut down the entire middle of the defensive line. At that point, Hurts can surge forward with his personal protectors pushing him forward.
You'll notice in the pile after they do it, all of the interior O linemen are laying on the their stomachs. Not only do they cut the DL but that creates a massive pile of no leverage and the Linebackers have no ground to push off from to drive Hurts back.
It all starts with the interior line cutting.
You'll notice in the pile after they do it, all of the interior O linemen are laying on the their stomachs. Not only do they cut the DL but that creates a massive pile of no leverage and the Linebackers have no ground to push off from to drive Hurts back.
It all starts with the interior line cutting.
Posted on 11/6/23 at 10:58 am to Big Scrub TX
quote:uh yeah
This combo is such an outlier that nobody else can do this?
Posted on 11/6/23 at 11:01 am to Big Scrub TX
The Saints D stuffed it last season on 4th and inches
Minshew was QB but nevertheless
Minshew was QB but nevertheless
Posted on 11/6/23 at 11:24 am to SirWinston
quote:I literally mentioned it as an example in the OP. Instead of giving him rear support, they lined him up empty. That's the whole thrust of my question! If anything, the beastly Hurts would be doing that, not vice versa.
Did you see Burrow try to run a similar version last night? He almost had his season ended by this monster on the Bills d line.
Posted on 11/6/23 at 11:26 am to KosmoCramer
quote:So, literally, the Eagles have the only interior 3-man front that can do some semblance of this? That just doesn't seem possible. I know Kelce is a positive outlier, but it's not like he's 5X better than all the other centers.
I think the key is Kelce and the guards. He is able to snap the ball and they are all able to get low enough to essentially cut down the entire middle of the defensive line.
quote:I do notice. That's why I'm asking why every team doesn't just do it.
You'll notice in the pile after they do it, all of the interior O linemen are laying on the their stomachs. Not only do they cut the DL but that creates a massive pile of no leverage and the Linebackers have no ground to push off from to drive Hurts back.
Posted on 11/6/23 at 11:28 am to Big Scrub TX
quote:I’ve never heard of a QB sneak being called the “Bush Push” except for one play involving Matt Leinart and Reggie Bush at USC
First of all, why did they stop calling it "Bush push"?
Posted on 11/6/23 at 11:29 am to Big Scrub TX
quote:
So, literally, the Eagles have the only interior 3-man front that can do some semblance of this? That just doesn't seem possible. I know Kelce is a positive outlier, but it's not like he's 5X better than all the other centers.
I don't think other teams devote enough practice to it, and it also isn't easy to get under the DL in that situation. They should.
Posted on 11/6/23 at 11:37 am to Big Scrub TX
quote:
First of all, why did they stop calling it "Bush push"?
It was the " Bush-Push" when it was infrequent and technically still illegal (though never called)...
Once it was widespread, legal and everyone was doing it..."Tush-Push" because Bush-Push connoted chicanery, "oh, he got away with a little Bush-Push" there."
So the mauling scrum we see today is the common tush-push, not the surreptitious one player helping Bush-push.
This post was edited on 11/6/23 at 11:40 am
Posted on 11/6/23 at 11:47 am to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:Both college and pro? When would you see it flipped?
Once it was widespread, legal and everyone was doing it..."Tush-Push" because Bush-Push connoted chicanery, "oh, he got away with a little Bush-Push" there."
Posted on 11/6/23 at 12:12 pm to usc6158
quote:
Jalen Hurts squating nearly 600 lbs is not replicable
But Hurts isn’t pretending to be a QB on these plays, so you don’t need a freak QB.
No other team can take one of their linebackers or strongest RB and teach them to take a handoff from center and get low and plow?
The OLine talent can’t be that different across the average NFL team
I agree with OP, confused why this can’t be replicated by other teams but I might not fully understand the strategy
This post was edited on 11/6/23 at 12:24 pm
Posted on 11/6/23 at 12:17 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
This combo is such an outlier that nobody else can do this?
There aren't many All Pro centers, no.
And Jalen Hurts squats over 600 lbs
Posted on 11/6/23 at 12:20 pm to Eighteen
quote:
But Hurts isn’t pretending to be a QB on these plays.
He is absolutely driving his legs on these plays, of you're insinuating he's not. I'm confused by the statement though
Posted on 11/6/23 at 12:22 pm to CatfishJohn
my point is the entire D is loaded up in the box knowing he is going to do this. so while another team might not have a 600 squat QB they could have another player with strong legs taking snaps under center for these plays
so the success of this is only because of the talent difference of an “all pro” center compared to an average NFL starting center? that doesn’t seem like a gap big enough so that no other team couldn’t replicate
quote:
There aren't many All Pro centers, no.
so the success of this is only because of the talent difference of an “all pro” center compared to an average NFL starting center? that doesn’t seem like a gap big enough so that no other team couldn’t replicate
This post was edited on 11/6/23 at 12:23 pm
Posted on 11/6/23 at 12:23 pm to Eighteen
Ah well that's true I guess if another player can securely and consistently take a lightning fast snap under center.
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