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re: What is the most overated baseball stat?
Posted on 8/20/09 at 8:54 am to Pilot Tiger
Posted on 8/20/09 at 8:54 am to Pilot Tiger
strikeouts reduce the chance of errors and unearned runs
0
Posted on 8/20/09 at 8:55 am to Pilot Tiger
quote:
it's still an overrated stat on measuring if a hitter is good or not
no one has posted any evidence against this opinion.
You qualified it later. Your initial statement in response to the questions, "What is the most overrated baseball stat?" was: "the strikeout for a batter" (Posted on 8/19/09 at 7:11 p.m)
Now you're saying that strikeouts don't measure the quality of hitter one is. Those are two similar statements, but your qualification makes them VERY different. I think that you know that, which is why you made the qualification.
I responded to your initial statement. I don't think that anyone is arguing with the statement after you made your qualifier.
Thus, you're not as clever as you think.
Posted on 8/20/09 at 8:57 am to Pilot Tiger
quote:
ok you can take Juan Pierre and I'll take Adam Dunn since strikeouts are so bad.
quote:
dont use reason in this thread!!! A P5 looks better than a K in the scorebook!!!
Someone that resorts to strawman arguments is not using reason.
No one is this thread said strike outs by a hitter was the most important stat. No one said you can look at strike outs and strikeouts alone and determine if some one was a good hitter. Any raw stat is meaningless with out context. Hitters that strike out a lot are usually (Barry please note the phrase usually, does not mean 100% of the time) a less disciplined hitter. Baloo please note, this does not mean the hitter is valueless or that other things he does are not more important.
Posted on 8/20/09 at 8:57 am to Sophandros
quote:
"the strikeout for a batter"
quote:its the same fricking thing you fricknut
strikeouts don't measure the quality of hitter one is
Posted on 8/20/09 at 8:59 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:I disagree with the usually part of that. You can say that hitters that arent very good tend to strike out more than your average hitter. But that does not mean hitters that strike out a lot are usually not good hitters
Hitters that strike out a lot are usually (Barry please note the phrase usually, does not mean 100% of the time) a less disciplined hitter.
Posted on 8/20/09 at 8:59 am to Pilot Tiger
quote:
"the strikeout for a batter"
quote:
strikeouts don't measure the quality of hitter one is
its the same fricking thing you fricknut
No, it's not.
And thanks for conceding the argument with the ad hominem.
Anyway, strikeouts are NOT the most overrated stat in baseball. Wins by a pitcher is. My point is that strikeouts DO tell you what's going on.
Posted on 8/20/09 at 8:59 am to Pilot Tiger
quote:
But that does not mean hitters that strike out a lot are usually not good hitters
No one has said that.
Posted on 8/20/09 at 9:01 am to Baloo
quote:
And a player can advance to first if the catcher drops the third strike
what happens more often, a dropped 3rd strike (isn't this only if he swings and misses?) or a fly out that advances a runner?
I stand by my statement: The only thing worse than strikeout for a hitter to do is ground into a double play.
Posted on 8/20/09 at 9:02 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:
saying saves is an over rated stat, which it is, is not saying relief pitchers are worthless. Never in sports history has a stat dictated strategy the way the save does. The closer, which is presumably the best RP on the team, will almost always come in at the start of a half inning when his team is up by 1,2 or 3 runs. Most pitchers should be able to get 3 outs before the other team scores enough runs to take the lead. There are often other situations in games where it would be more crucial to get outs, but teams will trott out some middle reliever because its not a save situation. The save has grossly distorted the way RP are used, vs how they should be used.
Completely agree.
Now, we disagree on what "disciplined hitter" is. Strikeouts don't mean that a guy lacks discipline, it means he swings for power. That's not the same as dsicipline. A guy who doesn't walk, that's an undisciplined hitter and strikeout totals give us NO insight into whether a guy walks or not. There is no correlation between strikeouts and plate discipline.
Posted on 8/20/09 at 9:02 am to Sophandros
youre not getting the point.
My point originally is that strikeouts are an overrated stat for batters. OBP, SLG, RBI, runs, SB's, etc are all way more important than how many times the dude k's. If you cant see that then I dont know what to tell you
My point originally is that strikeouts are an overrated stat for batters. OBP, SLG, RBI, runs, SB's, etc are all way more important than how many times the dude k's. If you cant see that then I dont know what to tell you
Posted on 8/20/09 at 9:04 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:
Hitters that strike out a lot are usually (Barry please note the phrase usually, does not mean 100% of the time) a less disciplined hitter.
I know its not, but usually suggest at least a % of over 50% which isn't even true. The strategy of todays power hitters is to look for great pitches to hit and take a good swing. Then be very disciplined on other pitches and hence drawing lots of walks. You can swing and strikeout on good pitches, which most power hitters do and still have good plate discipline.
Posted on 8/20/09 at 9:05 am to Baloo
quote:
There is no correlation between strikeouts and plate discipline.
Thank you!!!
Posted on 8/20/09 at 9:07 am to Pilot Tiger
quote:
youre not getting the point.
My point originally is that strikeouts are an overrated stat for batters. OBP, SLG, RBI, runs, SB's, etc are all way more important than how many times the dude k's. If you cant see that then I dont know what to tell you
The question at hand was this:
What is the most overated baseball stat?
So, you HONESTLY believe that strikeouts for a batter is the most overrated statistic among all of the statistics in baseball?
Just answer this last question before we continue.
Posted on 8/20/09 at 9:08 am to Sophandros
idk if it's overrated since i'm not sure anyone looks at them, but it's an irrelvant stat IMO
Posted on 8/20/09 at 9:08 am to H-Town Tiger
But now you're changing the scenario. Obviously the long fly out is better. The pop out to first is the same. Here is a rough outline of what can happen in an at bat, in order of quality
HR
triple
double
single, runners advance 2 bases
single or walk, runners advance 1 base
single or walk, runners do not advance
out, runners advance
out, runners do not advance
fielders choice which costs offense a base (ex - runner on 2nd is out, batter reaches first)
double play
triple play
An out is an out. ALL OUTS are bad. Some are worse than others, but at that point, we're talking about mitigating damage, not a positive.
HR
triple
double
single, runners advance 2 bases
single or walk, runners advance 1 base
single or walk, runners do not advance
out, runners advance
out, runners do not advance
fielders choice which costs offense a base (ex - runner on 2nd is out, batter reaches first)
double play
triple play
An out is an out. ALL OUTS are bad. Some are worse than others, but at that point, we're talking about mitigating damage, not a positive.
Posted on 8/20/09 at 9:08 am to Sophandros
In case you don't understand, the topic is:
What is the most overrated baseball stat?
The answer that Pilot Tiger gave was:
Strikeouts for a batter.
PERIOD. FULL STOP.
Thus, Pilot Tiger believes that strikeouts for a batter is the most overrated statistic in baseball. If this is NOT what he believes, then he should state as much.
What is the most overrated baseball stat?
The answer that Pilot Tiger gave was:
Strikeouts for a batter.
PERIOD. FULL STOP.
Thus, Pilot Tiger believes that strikeouts for a batter is the most overrated statistic in baseball. If this is NOT what he believes, then he should state as much.
Posted on 8/20/09 at 9:09 am to TigerPhan27
quote:
idk if it's overrated since i'm not sure anyone looks at them, but it's an irrelvant stat IMO
Do you believe that it is the most overrated statistic in baseball?
This is a yes/no question.
This post was edited on 8/20/09 at 9:10 am
Posted on 8/20/09 at 9:11 am to Baloo
quote:
out, runners do not advance
and this is where strikeouts rank.
However, do you believe that counting the number of strikeouts that a player amasses is overrated to the point that it is the most overrated stat in baseball?
Posted on 8/20/09 at 9:11 am to Sophandros
we could all say saves or wins is the most overrated, then there would be no discussion. I think strikeouts are probably in the top 2 or 3 most overrated stat. That, however is irrelevant to the discussion.
You still havent convinced me that it isnt an overrated stat
You still havent convinced me that it isnt an overrated stat
Posted on 8/20/09 at 9:13 am to Sophandros
quote:
Do you believe that it is the most overrated statistic in baseball?
yes.
The number of wins can tell me more about a pitcher, on average, than the number of SO can tell me about a hitter, on average.
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