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re: Westbrook off to a decent 2nd half start
Posted on 3/1/17 at 12:47 pm to shel311
Posted on 3/1/17 at 12:47 pm to shel311
I wouldn't say AI was a winner. He became one with the help of Larry Brown's tutelage. AI is sort of like Shaq in the fact he neglected key parts of his game and still was phenomenal. Westbrook is going to play himself into a coma with the sheer amount of workload. He is running on anger and emotion and that lasts for so long. I always wish to say he is great, but I've watched this cat do some of the stupidest things I have ever seen. I call him "McGee lite" as he is similar in stupid arse things that blow your mind at times. Takes stupid shots and makes mind numbing turnovers playing erratic and uncontrolled.
May sound crazy, but their victory against Cleveland about a month ago in OKC was his first signature win lol. He won that fourth quarter and was impressive when it mattered. But, that is an extremely small sample size, is it not?
May sound crazy, but their victory against Cleveland about a month ago in OKC was his first signature win lol. He won that fourth quarter and was impressive when it mattered. But, that is an extremely small sample size, is it not?
1
Posted on 3/1/17 at 12:48 pm to shel311
In Iversons prime. He was an unstoppable force. Westbrook can pass better and isn't near the ball have but he's not the playmaker Iverson is either. He took the Sixers to the finals by himself
Posted on 3/1/17 at 12:49 pm to reo45
quote:AI never took stupid shots?
Takes stupid shots and makes mind numbing turnovers playing erratic and uncontrolled.
And their turnover rates are 3.9 vs 3.6, not THAT much of a difference if you're talking about erratic and uncontrolled play.
Sounds like you're really speaking on emotion here, as really nothing you're saying is backed up by data.
Posted on 3/1/17 at 12:51 pm to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:What is 31/11/10?
In Iversons prime. He was an unstoppable force.
And again, "better scorer," are you not factoring in efficiency? Iverson scored more because he shot more, he did so inefficiently, and less efficient than Westbrook. That's not controversial or crazy for me to say, that is just so.
Posted on 3/1/17 at 12:55 pm to shel311
I like to think I'm having a convo with a sloth when I reply to Boom. Dudes a complete retard
Posted on 3/1/17 at 12:58 pm to reo45
quote:
If Westbrook can get his team to the finals as Iverson did and perform the way Iverson did against the lakers then maybe we can start talking about greatness
Well first, he plays in the West
Second, he's been to the finals
Posted on 3/1/17 at 1:37 pm to shel311
It's unheard of. He is an amazing player and deserves the mvp imo. But I'd still put him beyond iverson
Posted on 3/1/17 at 1:48 pm to TigerBait1127
quote:Yea. I'm imagining Westbrook would have to get by minimum 2 teams not just better than any of the East teams Iverson beat, but we're talking GS, one of the best teams of all time.
Well first, he plays in the West
Using that criteria makes it pretty illogical to say Westbrook has to do get to the Finals like AI did.
In Fact, if there were a scenario where OKC beats GS in the playoffs but still doesn't get to the Finals, I'd submit that as a way more impressive feat than going through the teams Philly went through.
The best team Philly beat was a 52 win team in the ECF. OKC would possibly have to beat 2 teams on pace for 63 and 68 wins to get to the Finals, so yea, that's a terrible barometer IMO. And if Westbrook did it, that wouldn't put him on equal footing by that logic of "get to the Finals." that would put him wayyyyyy ahead of AI by their logic.
This post was edited on 3/1/17 at 1:54 pm
Posted on 3/1/17 at 1:52 pm to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:I'll put it this way. We know AI played his entire career, 14 seasons I believe, without ever having someone like KD on his squad.
But I'd still put him beyond iverson
This is Westbrook's very 1st year without KD, and he's unquestionably having a better individual season than any of the 14 season's AI had. There's really not much to debate on that, AI never played this well in a season.
Posted on 3/1/17 at 1:54 pm to Boomshockalocka
quote:Why?
Westbrook not even top 10 in WS/48..... much better Metric than PER
Looking at all-time lists of PER and WS/48...it looks like PER is noticeably better. That also applies to a year by year basis.
This post was edited on 3/1/17 at 1:57 pm
Posted on 3/1/17 at 1:56 pm to ReauxlTide222
quote:
Why?
Looks at all available metrics
Finds metric that supports HOU player
Says that metric is the best one to use
Next week in a different argument that same metric does not support HOU player
Uses different metric
Posted on 3/1/17 at 1:59 pm to ReauxlTide222
No one metric is worth a whole lot on its own. But PER has almost too many shortcomings to list.
Posted on 3/1/17 at 2:08 pm to shel311
You don't think AI was more a product of his time? No guy was very very efficient in the early 2000s due to defensive strategies being so far ahead of offensive ones. As soon as a older AI went to Denver with a more open minded offensive Karl his efficiency numbers went up.
Posted on 3/1/17 at 2:09 pm to shel311
I think Iverson is a better scorer and defender. Everything else Westbrook has the edge. If ideas building a team of choose Westbrook. I just don't think he's a better scorer than Iverson that's all I'm saying
Posted on 3/1/17 at 2:10 pm to Boomshockalocka
Serious question...are you at all nervous that defenses in the playoffs will play into y'all's offensive philosophy?
I noticed the other night that defenders, considering they KNEW y'all were launching 3 after 3, were giving y'all a fairly large amount of space to shoot. It didn't seem like defenders in 1 on 1 situations behind the 3 point line were working their asses off to keep y'all from getting shots off.
Add that to the fact that defenses don't have to respect the midrange game, and good defenses in the playoffs are relentless(think Cavs against GS guarding the 3 point line), and I could see Houston getting really frustrated in a series.
Now, it's tough to guard Harden out there with his amazing ability to draw a foul...but some of those other guys aren't much threat when it comes to that.
Could you see teams taking away the efficiency y'all create by relentlessly guarding the perimeter?
I noticed the other night that defenders, considering they KNEW y'all were launching 3 after 3, were giving y'all a fairly large amount of space to shoot. It didn't seem like defenders in 1 on 1 situations behind the 3 point line were working their asses off to keep y'all from getting shots off.
Add that to the fact that defenses don't have to respect the midrange game, and good defenses in the playoffs are relentless(think Cavs against GS guarding the 3 point line), and I could see Houston getting really frustrated in a series.
Now, it's tough to guard Harden out there with his amazing ability to draw a foul...but some of those other guys aren't much threat when it comes to that.
Could you see teams taking away the efficiency y'all create by relentlessly guarding the perimeter?
Posted on 3/1/17 at 2:12 pm to LittleRockHog501
quote:Stockton and Nash put up TS% numbers over .600 in 2002 for example. And guys like Paul Pierce, even Michael Redd, so I don't think it's too much to ask for a guy we're crowing as an "elite scorer" to do better than a .489 TS%.
You don't think AI was more a product of his time? No guy was very very efficient in the early 2000s due to defensive strategies being so far ahead of offensive ones. As soon as a older AI went to Denver with a more open minded offensive Karl his efficiency numbers went up.
Posted on 3/1/17 at 2:14 pm to ReauxlTide222
The thing is CC doesn't really run offensive sets so there's a little less game planning you do for them. You take away one thing James goes to his next option. Other teams that run certain sets when they need a bucket. Well CC will be ready for those plays you had better believe it. So CC lack of set plays is a huge advantage in a playoff series where teams know what is coming. Yea you know James is gonna have the ball. But as far as what he's gonna do with it. Well that's based on the look you give him.
Posted on 3/1/17 at 2:14 pm to shel311
AI never rebounded on the level of Russ this year but he definitely has some years with just as many points and like a two APG less than Russ on a lower usage rate
Posted on 3/1/17 at 2:15 pm to shel311
This is where your numbers work against you. No one in their right mind is gonna say that nash was a better scorer than AI but he was more effecient.
Posted on 3/1/17 at 2:26 pm to Boomshockalocka
I have no doubt that Harden will make smart plays with the ball. And he can damn sure get to the rim and finish. But I could see teams allowing more of that if it means guys like Anderson aren't getting hot and just standing back there and killing them.
Y'all have plenty guys who can get to the rim. But would y'all be in trouble if teams forced y'all to do that more and y'all didn't make nearly as many 3s? Cause I could see that happening.
Y'all seem susceptible to that more than some other top teams.
Y'all have plenty guys who can get to the rim. But would y'all be in trouble if teams forced y'all to do that more and y'all didn't make nearly as many 3s? Cause I could see that happening.
Y'all seem susceptible to that more than some other top teams.
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