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Posted on 2/10/10 at 2:00 pm to Baloo
quote:
Agree 100% then again, I'm from Baltimore. We got screwed and to make up for it, when Baltimore finally got back in the league (by eventually refusing to play Charlie Brown to the NFL's Lucy), they give Cleveland the sweetheart deal they never gave us. Viewed in this prism, the "poor Cleveland" deal the NFL brokered is one last frick you to Baltimore
I agree Baltimore got fricked. I think the major reason Cleveland got the deal was because of the out-cry from what happened to the Colts fans in Balt.
quote:
We got shite on for 13 years, and then we get cast as the villains. frick Cleveland.
I never thought of Baltimore as the villains. The hate was centered on Modell. He wouldnt even show his face back in Cleveland ever again.
Posted on 2/10/10 at 2:03 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
But, what do folks in Baltimore and Houston do with Unitas and Campbell?
Can't speak for Houston, but the Ravens have embraced the old Colts, who felt for years they didn't have a home. Back in the day, those guys all lived in the city (true story, my neighbor once deked the crap out of Unitas' grandson in hockey -- Unitas congratulated him after the game... it was like God blessing him). The Ravens have created a Maryland Football history section in the media guide, and they have retired some of the old Colt numbers and have them in the ring of fame.
The Baltimore Colts have been huge supporters of the Ravens and are often involved in Ravens events, including pregames. Teams are tied to the city. If they move, change the damn name. Baltimore has tried, repeatedly to get the Colts name back. It didn't die until we got a team back and Irsay demanded some ridiculous sum for the name Colts.
All would have been forgiven had he just rebranded his crappy team and sold us the Colts name for a few million. Jim Irsay had a chance to make amends, but refused.
Posted on 2/10/10 at 2:19 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
so even the national media didn't really grasp that concept ..
They weren't saying it was the first win in franchise history. The 99 Browns were put together like an expansion franchise, so their first win in that season was like losing to an expansion team.
no .. they were clearly saying the saints have now been the victims of two expansion franchises initial wins .. it was pretty clear ..
quote:
I guess I really don't understand your point. Should Cleveland fans count the 2000 Ravens as a title just because some of those players, the owner, GM etc where in Cleveland 4 years before? Should they not view Jim Brown as part of their history, but rather as part of the Ravens history?
i guess for me .. if tom benson moved the saints to los angeles .. but, part of the deal was that the city kept the name, franchise records, etc. and was guaranteed another team in four years .. to me, that wouldn't be the original saints that i grew up with .. and if the team in los angeles with drew brees, marcus colston, etc. won the super bowl three years later .. even though i was bitter .. that would still be the original saints to me no matter what the nickname was ... the new team would be just that .. a new team .. sure, i would pull for the new saints .. but that wouldn't be the team that won the super bowl in the 2009 season to me ... for me, i don't how i could put it any clearer than that .. that's all ..
This post was edited on 2/10/10 at 2:20 pm
Posted on 2/10/10 at 2:23 pm to Baloo
i remember when you had the canadian football league franchise in baltimore and they were called the colts .. irsay shite a brick and they had to be called the baltimore cfl colts .. i've read books on the subject of the old baltimore colts and it really is sad that the team was taken from that city .. people ate, slept, and crapped the baltimore colts there back in the day ..
Posted on 2/10/10 at 2:27 pm to Baloo
quote:
My fiancee still tells me stop flipping off Mayflower trucks.
Now that's funny!
Posted on 2/10/10 at 2:32 pm to Baloo
quote:
Can't speak for Houston, but the Ravens have embraced the old Colts
Pretty much the same here.
At Texans games they have honored old Oilers as "Houston Football Legends" and they get thunderous applause. They had big write ups on Moon and Mathews when they went in the HOF. At least Mathews played in Tenn, like they give a frick about Moon/Campbell etc. Yeah they played for our franchise 20 years before we got it, yipee!
Posted on 2/10/10 at 2:39 pm to TigahRag
quote:
no .. they were clearly saying the saints have now been the victims of two expansion franchises initial wins .. it was pretty clear ..
because they were an expansive caliber team. Its not like the media is wrestling with this issue the way you are.
quote:
to me, that wouldn't be the original saints that i grew up with ..
whatever, no offense but that seems pretty stupid, the Saints I grew up are gone because they are all long since retired. I'm pretty sure they do not consider the 1988 World Series a win for "us" in Brooklyn.
Are you saying the Browns fans should be disappointed they have a new team? They shouldn't think of it as the same team? So what if it isn't. Should they be Happy the Ravens won 4 years after leaving and 2 years after the Browns came back/where and expansion team? What do you mean its no the same team they grew up with? Its a hyper technicality at best. The people in Cleveland root for Cleveland, they are lucky they got to keep all the old records.
quote:I can't speak for you, but if the team moved after the 2005 season would you still consider Brees/Colston/Bush part of the Saints you grew up with even though they would never have played in NO? Not me. Hell Eddie George and McNair played in Houston 1 year and no one I know considers them part of the Oilers they grew uop with.
.. and if the team in los angeles with drew brees, marcus colston, etc. won the super bowl three years later
This post was edited on 2/10/10 at 2:42 pm
Posted on 2/10/10 at 2:41 pm to TigahRag
Baltimore: City of Champions
NFL Championship: Colts
Super Bowl: Colts and Ravens
CFL Grey Cup: Stallions
USFL Championship: Stars
Four different pro football titles. Yeah, the NFL sued us when we named the CFL team the "CFL Colts". Dude, we watched Canadian football. that's how desperate we were.
NFL Championship: Colts
Super Bowl: Colts and Ravens
CFL Grey Cup: Stallions
USFL Championship: Stars
Four different pro football titles. Yeah, the NFL sued us when we named the CFL team the "CFL Colts". Dude, we watched Canadian football. that's how desperate we were.
Posted on 2/10/10 at 2:58 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
whatever, no offense but that seems pretty stupid, the Saints I grew up are gone because they are all long since retired. I'm pretty sure they do not consider the 1988 World Series a win for "us" in Brooklyn.
i don't think it's stupid .. then again, i have never really considered someone else's opinion to be "stupid" if i didn't agree with it, that's just me .. and the whole context of the conversation centers around the original browns leaving cleveland in 1995 and the ravens winning the super bowl five years later .. not something that happened 30 years after a franchise moved ... that was my point, if the saints moved in the next couple of seasons and won an NFL title three or four years later with players from the original saints team that i followed .. it would be hard for me to completely disconnect from that group and suddenly wrap my arms around the new saints that basically started up as a glorified expansion franchise with an expansion draft ... the LA Dodgers analogy is far from applicable ..
quote:
Are you saying the Browns fans should be disappointed they have a new team? They shouldn't think of it as the same team?
i'm speaking for or telling someone how they should feel about their team, i am talking about how i would feel in the same situation ... and NO, 100% of the browns fan base didn't stop supporting the original browns in unison and embrace the new browns, just like there were still fans in baltimore that still followed the colts in indy ... this thread's about opinion and how different people view history ..
quote:
I can't speak for you, but if the team moved after the 2005 season would you still consider Brees/Colston/Bush part of the Saints you grew up with even though they would never have played in NO? Not me. Hell Eddie George and McNair played in Houston 1 year and no one I know considers them part of the Oilers they grew uop with.
well, considering brees, colston, and bush didn't play for the saints in 2005, i'd say no, not really ..
Posted on 2/10/10 at 3:00 pm to Baloo
don't forget the bullets in the 1970s .. oh, oops, they had moved to landover by then, but i guess you could still consider that the old baltimore bullets, right ?
Posted on 2/10/10 at 3:04 pm to TigahRag
quote:
well, considering brees, colston, and bush didn't play for the saints in 2005, i'd say no, not really ..
Thats his point...Ray The Murderer never played in Cleveland, for example.
Posted on 2/10/10 at 3:14 pm to TigahRag
quote:
just like there were still fans in baltimore that still followed the colts in indy ...
I've never met these people. And I'm willing to bet I know more people from Baltimore. I'm also willing to bet there are no Ravens fans in Cleveland.
And the NBA doesn't count. I could give a shite about the NBA. If the Bullets/Wizards ceased to exist, it would have no impact on my life.
Posted on 2/10/10 at 3:15 pm to SprintFun
The Ravens starting roster in the 2000 Superbowl
Qadry Ismail WR Never Played in Cleveland
Jonathan Ogden LT Never Played in Cleveland
Edwin Mulitalo LG Never Played in Cleveland
Jeff Mitchell C Never Played in Cleveland
Mike Flynn RG Never Played in Cleveland
Harry Swayne RT Never Played in Cleveland
Shannon Sharpe TE Never Played in Cleveland
Brandon Stokley WR Never Played in Cleveland
Trent Dilfer QB Never Played in Cleveland
Jamal Lewis RB Never Played in Cleveland (Well not the 1995 Cleveland team
)
Sam Gash FB Never Played in Cleveland
DEFENSE
Rob Burnett LE PLAYED IN CLEVELAND!
Sam Adams LDT Never Played in Cleveland
Tony Siragusa RDT Never Played in Cleveland
Michael McCrary RE Never Played in Cleveland
Peter Boulware LOLB Never Played in Cleveland
Ray Lewis MLB Never Played in Cleveland
Jamie Sharper ROLB Never Played in Cleveland
Duane Starks LCB Never Played in Cleveland
Chris McAlister RCB Never Played in Cleveland
Kim Herring SS Never Played in Cleveland
Rod Woodson FS Never Played in Cleveland
So Rag, one player who started on the Ravens Super Bowl team was from the 1995 Cleveland team.
Can we finally put this thread down now?
Qadry Ismail WR Never Played in Cleveland
Jonathan Ogden LT Never Played in Cleveland
Edwin Mulitalo LG Never Played in Cleveland
Jeff Mitchell C Never Played in Cleveland
Mike Flynn RG Never Played in Cleveland
Harry Swayne RT Never Played in Cleveland
Shannon Sharpe TE Never Played in Cleveland
Brandon Stokley WR Never Played in Cleveland
Trent Dilfer QB Never Played in Cleveland
Jamal Lewis RB Never Played in Cleveland (Well not the 1995 Cleveland team
) Sam Gash FB Never Played in Cleveland
DEFENSE
Rob Burnett LE PLAYED IN CLEVELAND!
Sam Adams LDT Never Played in Cleveland
Tony Siragusa RDT Never Played in Cleveland
Michael McCrary RE Never Played in Cleveland
Peter Boulware LOLB Never Played in Cleveland
Ray Lewis MLB Never Played in Cleveland
Jamie Sharper ROLB Never Played in Cleveland
Duane Starks LCB Never Played in Cleveland
Chris McAlister RCB Never Played in Cleveland
Kim Herring SS Never Played in Cleveland
Rod Woodson FS Never Played in Cleveland
So Rag, one player who started on the Ravens Super Bowl team was from the 1995 Cleveland team.
Can we finally put this thread down now?
This post was edited on 2/10/10 at 3:17 pm
Posted on 2/10/10 at 3:18 pm to TigahRag
Current Browns = Pepsi made with high fructose corn syrup
Pre-1996 Browns = Pepsi Throwback made with real sugar
Just goes to show you how sweet the Browns were back in the day.
Pre-1996 Browns = Pepsi Throwback made with real sugar
Just goes to show you how sweet the Browns were back in the day.
Posted on 2/10/10 at 3:31 pm to SprintFun
looks like a fairly typical five-year NFL face lift to me ... the 1995 browns were pretty bad, but they did win their last game while the dawg pound was tearing up the end zone seats, ripping urinals off the walls, and everytime any action in the fourth quarter got close to that end of the field, the officials had to move the ball to the other end ...
this is all semantics anyway .. i guess ...
this is all semantics anyway .. i guess ...
Posted on 2/10/10 at 3:33 pm to TigahRag
A "fairly typical five year facelift" means the 2000 ravens had jackshit to do with the Cleveland Browns - the only thing that was the same is the fat guy writing the checks.
And nice dig at the cleveland fans - definitely relevant
And nice dig at the cleveland fans - definitely relevant
Posted on 2/10/10 at 4:08 pm to TigahRag
quote:
semantics
You love this word. You have used it in 4 diff. posts so far.
BTW, do you have a problem with Cleveland fans in general?
Posted on 2/10/10 at 4:13 pm to bomber77
quote:
semantics
You love this word. You have used it in 4 diff. posts so far.
To be fair, I was the one using that. I think rag just picked up on it.
Hopefully, I've made myself clear in that I don't have a problem with Cleveland or its fans, just the NFL's double standards when it comes to this stuff. I do think it's more a case of them coming to their senses and learning how to handle this crap, though. Still sucks for the cities that truly LOST their teams, though.
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