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re: The ATL Thread: Offseason

Posted on 2/6/21 at 5:13 pm to
Posted by POCKET
Member since Nov 2011
2652 posts
Posted on 2/6/21 at 5:13 pm to
Maybe hopeful, but I think Riley eventual turns into a .270 BA with 30 HRs and average defense guy. While not all star level, that’s pretty solid.

Waters I’m less sold on due to the high strikeouts and lack of power. And as somebody above stated, his defense is less valuable if we plug him in left. But he’s still the 30ish ranked prospect in baseball.

Langliers I think will be our catcher after TDA and think he’ll be league average at minimum.

I’m all for going after JR, but the price seems a little high. Definitely higher than what the Mets paid for Lindor / Carrasco.

Would prefer to switch out one of the position players for one of our surplus pitching prospects
Posted by volfan30
Member since Jun 2010
41214 posts
Posted on 2/6/21 at 5:29 pm to
Rosenthal inferred Braves discussed Arenado with Rockies and could have done a Bryse Wilson/Austin Riley for Arenado swap but even with Rox kicking in money Braves weren’t comfortable with the salary commitment.
Posted by SteelerBravesDawg
Member since Sep 2020
43337 posts
Posted on 2/6/21 at 6:30 pm to
quote:

The approach is what’s most worrisome to me. I am not a believer in Riley at all as a first division regular.


I think you're gonna be wrong on this.

And poor defense? Are you high?
Posted by SteelerBravesDawg
Member since Sep 2020
43337 posts
Posted on 2/6/21 at 6:33 pm to
quote:

Maybe hopeful, but I think Riley eventual turns into a .270 BA with 30 HRs and average defense guy

Anybody here would/should take that.

I'd be fine w/.260 and 30-35 HR's.

His defense is a lot better than people think it is.
Posted by SteelerBravesDawg
Member since Sep 2020
43337 posts
Posted on 2/6/21 at 8:33 pm to

David O'Brien
@DOBrienATL
Marcell Ozuna: "The experience last year was the best of my life... I'm proud to be an Atlanta Brave."


680 The Fan
@680TheFan
Alex Anthopoulos on Marcell Ozuna: “We wanted him back. He was definitely a priority. Having spoken to him, I knew that Atlanta was his first choice and he was our first choice. We’re glad we were able to get it done” #Braves

Grant McAuley
@grantmcauley
Marcell Ozuna on returning to the #Braves:

"My mind was always with Atlanta... My door was open to them. I was on the market to find a new place, but at that same time I just kept waiting for their decision

Posted by VADawg
Wherever
Member since Nov 2011
48362 posts
Posted on 2/6/21 at 8:35 pm to
quote:

I'd be fine w/.260 and 30-35 HR's.


I would be way more than fine with that.

quote:

His defense is a lot better than people think it is.


I agree. I thought he was an above average defender last year. Other than a few low throws that Freeman saved because he is insanely flexible, I don't really remember Riley making any bad plays at 3B.

That said, if you have to send him to the Indians in a deal to get Ramirez for 3 years, you shake his hand, tell him thank you, and wish him well. Ramirez is the ceiling of what you could ever hope Riley gets to. He is a great player.

Trading for Ramirez is the kind of move that would show that the front office is very serious about winning a WS.
This post was edited on 2/6/21 at 8:40 pm
Posted by Broski
Member since Jun 2011
81050 posts
Posted on 2/6/21 at 8:49 pm to
quote:

I'd be fine w/.260 and 30-35 HR's.



That's basically what Donaldson gave us in his year here.

The thing with Riley is that he has yet to play 162 games in his MLB career, but there were stretches in each of the last two seasons where he was our hottest hitter.

With that said, if Ramirez is an option, you make that move.
This post was edited on 2/6/21 at 8:51 pm
Posted by SteelerBravesDawg
Member since Sep 2020
43337 posts
Posted on 2/6/21 at 9:29 pm to
I can't disagree w/any of that.

And your second sentence needs to be highlighted and read by his doubters. Over and over. We need more of a sample size. He really did hit into some piss-poor luck last year.

I really think Chipper would unlock his ceiling.
Posted by volfan30
Member since Jun 2010
41214 posts
Posted on 2/7/21 at 1:58 am to
He is not a butcher but he has very little range over there.
Posted by rebel of fortune
Mississippi
Member since Oct 2012
3893 posts
Posted on 2/7/21 at 3:39 am to
Defensive metrics weren’t kind to Riley last year and I’m not sure he can even stick at third base. Riley is gonna have to be a really good hitter to stick in the majors and so far I’m not seeing it. He doesn’t walk enough for someone that probably will never hit above .280 and nearly all his value is in his power. This could be the last year Riley has any trade value left. The fact that both his glove and bat are both below average right now doesn’t give me a lot of hope.
Posted by SteelerBravesDawg
Member since Sep 2020
43337 posts
Posted on 2/7/21 at 7:07 am to
quote:

Defensive metrics weren’t kind to Riley last year and I’m not sure he can even stick at third base. Riley is gonna have to be a really good hitter to stick in the majors and so far I’m not seeing it. He doesn’t walk enough for someone that probably will never hit above .280 and nearly all his value is in his power. This could be the last year Riley has any trade value left. The fact that both his glove and bat are both below average right now doesn’t give me a lot of hope.


Here, read these metrics and you should feel better:


This is his xBA. Thats expected batting average if you take away the defense making good plays or shifting just right, whatever the reason the play is made. Also SLG and OBP.

Riley's actual line, .239/.301/.415

Riley's expected line, .263/.325/.471

Take away his 2 week slump at the end of the season and his xBA wss about .275

IOW, Riley hit into a lot of bad luck, I.e. right at people, last season.
This post was edited on 2/7/21 at 7:12 am
Posted by SteelerBravesDawg
Member since Sep 2020
43337 posts
Posted on 2/7/21 at 7:11 am to
Also, this is a very important point brought up by Broski last night:

quote:

The thing with Riley is that he has yet to play 162 games in his MLB career


You need to really read that over and over till it sinks in. The fact you already have made up your mind on him and he doesn't even have a full season's worth of games yet is troubling. We need more of a sample size.
Posted by SteelerBravesDawg
Member since Sep 2020
43337 posts
Posted on 2/7/21 at 7:14 am to
quote:

The fact that his glove is below average .

Did you even watch him last season. He was very good at 3rd.
Posted by rebel of fortune
Mississippi
Member since Oct 2012
3893 posts
Posted on 2/7/21 at 9:01 am to
Baseball reference and fangraphs both had Riley as a bad defender last year. He looked pretty lost last postseason with 18 strikeouts in 45 at bats and hit .178 with a .489 ops. If this team is trying to win a World Series than we have to upgrade third base. Do you think the Dodgers, Yankees, Astros, and Padres would give Riley another year? We could make the same mistake with Riley as we did with all of the pitching prospects that we should’ve traded when they had value.
Posted by SteelerBravesDawg
Member since Sep 2020
43337 posts
Posted on 2/7/21 at 9:01 am to
quote:

He is not a butcher but he has very little range over there

Disagree.
Posted by David Ricky
Hailing From Parts Unknown
Member since Sep 2015
25950 posts
Posted on 2/9/21 at 5:29 pm to
quote:

Jon Heyman @JonHeyman
Adam Duvall has an MLB deal with Marlins. One year. Believed to be for about $4.5M.
Posted by diddlydawg7
2x Best Poster Elite 8 (2x Sweet 16
Member since Oct 2017
29648 posts
Posted on 2/11/21 at 10:20 am to
Pretty good deal for the Marlins IMO. I think teams don't think he can be consistent enough otherwise he would've gotten way more.
Posted by CaptSpaulding
Member since Feb 2012
6974 posts
Posted on 2/11/21 at 10:46 am to
The new ball this year is not going to be kind to Duvall.
Posted by VADawg
Wherever
Member since Nov 2011
48362 posts
Posted on 2/11/21 at 10:51 am to
quote:

The new ball this year is not going to be kind to Duvall.


I agree with this.

Duvall's numbers were very inflated by having two 3HR games in a week. That is so statistically improbable. I do like the guy and thought we should have tried to bring him back as a bench bat, but he'll probably be playing everyday in Miami so good for him.

When they inevitably bean Acuna again, I hope Duvall isn't the guy we throw at in retaliation.
Posted by SteelerBravesDawg
Member since Sep 2020
43337 posts
Posted on 2/11/21 at 6:38 pm to
For the Morton doubters:

Jayson Stark did a write up on Morton...





“I think it’s important to have someone who has that type of experience,” Braves GM Alex Anthopoulos told us this winter. “I still think there’s value in that in this day and age. I still remember, when I was in Toronto, hearing Roy Halladay talk about the impact Pat Hentgen had on him as a young pitcher. I remember Hentgen talking about the impact Jack Morris and Roger Clemens had on him when he pitched. … I just think those lessons that older players can teach younger players is a real thing.”

So the Braves see Morton as an ideal veteran stabilizer who can provide perspective, wisdom, leadership and balance to one of the youngest staffs of any contender — a staff that also has 23-year-old ace Mike Soroka returning from an Achilles tear, by the way. Here’s why they were looking for a guy just like Charlie Morton:

• Of the Braves’ 60 regular-season games last year, 45 were started by pitchers 27 or younger — more than any playoff team except the Marlins (53).

• Overall, 51 of those 60 games were started by pitchers in their 20s — also the most of any playoff team except the Marlins (59).

• But the nine games started by Braves pitchers in their 30s — five by Josh Tomlin, three by Tommy Milone, one by Cole Hamels? Uh, they didn’t go so hot. To the tune of a 5.51 ERA, the third-worst by 30-something starters of any team in baseball and by far the worst of any playoff team.

Morton, on the other hand, has had one of the most remarkable late-career resurgences of any pitcher in this sport. His performance, since he joined the Astros in 2017 at age 33, ranks with this group of aces, all of whom own Cy Young trophies (except him):

Best active starters since age 33*
PITCHER YEARS ERA K/9 IP
Max Scherzer
2018-20
2.85
12.41
Justin Verlander
2016-20
2.87
10.98
Zack Greinke
2017-20
3.2
8.77
Charlie Morton
2017-20
3.34
10.64
(*min. 50 starts)

On the surface, Morton’s 4.74 ERA and declining whiff rate last year in Tampa Bay might seem like a reason for concern. But not for the Braves, who saw a pitcher who was clearly set back by the COVID-19 shutdown and then got better as he went along.

Average four-seam fastball velocity

July: 92.5 mph
August: 93.0 mph
September: 94.1 mph
October: 95.0 mph

(Source: Statcast)

“He’s already defied most of the doubters about his ability to stay healthy,” said one rival exec. “Great (addition), especially with so many young guns on that staff.”

This post was edited on 2/11/21 at 6:41 pm
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