re: TAMU just MAY have hired themselves a good coach

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LSU could have lost 4-5 in the SEC this year and 2010. Hypotheticals are meaningless,

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Of course they are. That's why I thought we were playing odds here. Using historical facts.

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I'm willing to be you didn't think A&M could compete with that offense

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This is true, and I don't have to crawfish. The kid is amazing, and A&M defense even played better than I would have guessed, but.......no championship. They will have to run the gamut each and every year. And the coordinators will stay one step ahead, and the pressure on Sumlin's system will put too much emphasis on the pass, and too much production from the QB position.

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You do not have to forego defense to have a more open offense.

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This is where we may differ. I believe there is a direct correlation. Ball control and clock control are defense. How many times do you see these Sumlin offenses end up third and short without the personnel to keep it on the ground. I cringe everytime I see these situations and the QB takes a snap from the shotgun.

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I personally prefer a more pro style passing attack like USC and Miami

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We can agree on this. I think Saban's got a great mix going on right now, and to a lesser extent, so does Brian Kelly. McCarron and Golson have been great managers. Obviously, McCarron has more experience, and both have stretched the field well, McCarron with his arm, and Golson with both his arm and feet. This is what LSU and Florida lacked.

Last year, Lee and Jefferson connected on many deep passes, mostly to RR. This was key in our success. Mettenberger and Driskill were awful in accomplishing this. You can complain about receivers, lack of protection, etc., but accuracy was the most important reason.

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I don't see how it is difficult to find and develop a game manager at QB

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I don't think it's difficult with a competent staff. I'm convinced Miles feels compelled to justify his salary, and meddles too much. If not, he allows his OL mentality to influence his choices of offensive coordination. He needs to get outside of his comfort zone within his staff to equal out his tendencies.

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Saban's way requires you to recruit the best class and have have more talent than everyone else

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This applies to the entire SEC, and emphasis is placed on defense, with many of the elite talented high school players ending up on defense, even if they played offense in high school. Saban wants Fournette at LB, etc., etc.
Just another reason why Sumlin ain't marching through this conference without developing some ball control short yardage philosophies that include being able to grind out yards.

It's so coincidental how these offenses always have average at best defenses, don't you think?

I've enjoyed the discussion, and I've had a few with you over the years on many subjects. We share a lot of views, but we probably differ on this one.

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I don't really get your point about too much production from the QB position

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Carrying the ball, and having to be precise with passing.

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But see they really don't. Sometimes they do, but not always. For example West Virginia in 2007 was a top 10 D. OU had sick D's early in Stoops tenure, including 2003 and 2004. In 2010 Oregon was #34, that's above avg, top 3rd. By contrast Mich State was atop 5 D this year and went 7-6. Like i said, there's more than one way to win. Just because Bama is on top now, does not mean you have to do what they do to win.

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You're outside the SEC again.

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A&M can run, they have some great RB's and 2 1st round tackles. I don't know what they did in 3rd and short more often this year. By the same token, what does your ground and pound do in 3rd and long? Or when they fall behind?

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They convert at higher percentages, which keeps the ball, the best defense known to man. A&M did awesome on all third downs this year, probably more in the first half of games if I had to guess. And definitely from longer distances. Those odds will hold up about as well as Miles' on fourth down, and as well as his fakes on special teams have.

Sorry, just got back from an athletic function.

I really have to question if you're picking up what I'm laying down.

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Alabama has always be a defense first, running team

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And, thus, they have more championships than everyone else. Saban did the same here. Miles continued the same offensive mind set.

I honestly think the run based, pro-style, ball control offense is going to fare better in the SEC, and therefore in all of college football, when it comes to winning championships.

As I type this, RG3 is showing why these offensive systems leave your entire program too vulnerable. Remember Dixon at Oregon, and what ensued that season.

LSU lost Flynn, and had Perrilloux with a sliced finger in the SECCG, yet still won. I know that's extreme, but you have to see that making your team less dependent on the exceptional athleticism of one individual is wise. Of course, LSU does it too an extreme.

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that doesn't mean SEC teams have to run an uber conservative offense to succeed

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We are in total agreeance on this point. But, having TE's and FB's is essential, in my mind.

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Why do you have to hinge it on 1 or 2 guys

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Because in my estimation, there are only 2 kids in each recruiting class that can successfully pull off that level of play within a 3 year window to bring your team a championship. I mean, you're talking an elite group here. Brady, Tebow and Newton (and even then they didn't run hurry up), maybe Manning (and I doubt that, because mobility would probably be an issue).

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To do what Alabama is doing requires a rare coach

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Miles is not rare, and only trails Saban by one re-do victory head to head. It's the combination of defense, special teams, and an offense that executes. Please don't confuse this statement as a defense of Coach Miles and our offense.

Miles has proven without a shadow of doubt in my mind that he is not capable of identifying and developing the type of QB needed to fit his own system. And he's not willing to give some the chance to prove they can do it.

Eight years of proof. Eight recruiting classes, staff changes, hell, even by accident, there was a game manager in the bunch that brought a championship (SEC '11).

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I would not be surprised to see them run those guys more going forward.

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I'm not sure. But, to me, it's more of the getting the number of plays in a game as high as they can. Running to the line and snapping it. We saw it with Clemson. They dominated us, and still needed a 4th and 16 prayer. Not to mention a perfect storm of other LSU miscues.

If A&M begins to work the clock and implements a short yardage scheme to convert on third and fourth downs when needed, I'll be more worried about LSU's chances.

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Having a good QB is key for just about any offense.

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Once again, totally agree. But, having an elite QB that rushes for almost as much as he throws and snaps the ball as quickly as he can on every play, is not going to win championships in the SEC against the likes of Alabama, LSU, and Florida.

I guess if you're looking for the stars to align, and you don't have access to the type of offensive line and defensive talent as those teams, then this system might be a great alternative.

Personally, I think A&M can get the horses, and I'm not disappointed to see them running Sumlin's scheme. Probably a better chance of seeing a post-Newton Auburn after Manziel, than a post-McElroy Alabama.

In conclusion, I don't see Sumlin's present offensive philosophy as a long term obstacle to LSU winning championships, and I think we're better off with a variation of the system we run. We need a QB with mobility, that can stretch the field with his arm, but not asked to carry the load on the ground, just avoid the rush and get yards when receivers are covered. Mauck and Flynn are great examples.